The Mindset Shift That Can Change Your 20s with Kane Kallaway

Josh Felgoise (00:00.204)

Welcome to Guy's Set, a guy's guide to what should be talked about. I'm Josh, I'm 24 years old, and I'm here to find all the tips, advice, and recommendations for everything you're wondering about. Let's get into it.

Josh Felgoise (00:17.742)

Hi guys, welcome back to guys set a guy's guide to what should be talked about. This week I have Kane Calloway on the podcast. Calloway is a digital creator who makes daily videos for entrepreneurs. He recently had Mark Zuckerberg on his show, which is absolutely crazy. What a fall from grace coming to this show after interviewing Mark Zuckerberg about AI. But he has, if you don't know who Calloway is, I think you will leave this episode feeling really inspired.

We talk about his journey from being a full-time consultant to now a full-time content creator and what he's learned and what advice he has for anybody in a similar role or somebody who's in their career and not sure what they want to do next or feeling like they're in a lull and just kind of feeling out of focus and a little lost in where they're at. He talks about finding and building confidence. He leads us through his entire morning and daily routine, which I absolutely loved. If you know me and you listen to this podcast, you know I love that type of shit. And I'll be incorporating pieces of his morning routine into mine. We talk about his interview with Mark Zuckerberg. We talk about

how he creates content and how he views content now. We talked about what he's learned throughout this year, comparison, confidence, sacrifice, all those really interesting topics that I love to talk about. I absolutely love this interview. think there's a lot of really cool and great tangible takeaways that you can incorporate into your day, into your week. Also, it mean the world if you could give this podcast five stars and leave a review and let me know what you thought of this episode after or what other content you want to hear from this podcast. Without further ado, please welcome Kane Calloway to Geisted.

Josh Felgoise (01:47.726)

Do you keep this part in or do you usually cut this part? Like how does the show work typically? It depends how good this part of the conversation is, but I'll keep some of this in. I feel like it's fun. Why not? Nice. Yeah, give me some quick background on the show. Like how far are you with it? Okay, okay. So what guests do you typically have? So I'm 61. You'll be on my 61st episode. vary guests depending on my interests. So the show is called Guy Set.

It depends on the interest. Like people ask me all the time how I keep up with content and how I decide what I'm gonna do next. And it's truly week to week. I really don't bank content. I know I probably should, but I don't. And it's all about like, it's all about things that should be talked about for your 20s for guys. So last week was phone time. This week is with you. The week before was about mindset. The week before was about dating. I had on the CEO of Barstool, which was amazing.

I just shit you had Dave Portnoy on not Dave Erica was the CEO. Nice. No, no Dave would be insane Erica was more about like career advice business advice and then I just read I just read this book and I reached out to the author of it and he's gonna come on in October. So like it is really all what I think guys in their 20s would be interested in hearing and who those people would be. It's truly edge. Yeah, very very wide ranging. Nice.

That's dope. I'm pumped. I'm pumped for it. We can definitely, I mean, I'm, we can talk about so many things. I'm 31. So I just went through the whole twenties gauntlet. We can talk about everything on like the content creation, of course, like why to do it, why not to do a ways to approach it. We can also talk about career stuff. like I used to be in consulting, didn't like it, spent a lot of my twenties trying to figure out how to get out. Like there's a lot we can go, go down. That's literally my first question for you. I listened to a podcast you were on today.

And I want to talk about that. So before we get into it all introduce yourself tell everybody who you are What you did before and what you're doing now and then I want to get into consulting because I think that you are interesting Perfect. Yeah, so I'm Callaway and Right now I am like a full-time creator entrepreneur. We'll call it. So the primary thing I do is make content Short form video is kind of the first thing that I started. So I've got like 550,000 followers. I've done over a billion views

Josh Felgoise (04:11.726)

300 or so videos. I just wrapped up my first year full-time. So quit my job one year ago I've been at content for like 18 months before that I tried a bunch of Basically, I had a job that I didn't like and then was launching startups launching Businesses on the side trying to find something that worked did that for like seven years? Nothing really worked

The reason why I got into content was because I was kind of taking the product first approach, which I'm sure we'll get into this but yeah, yeah I stopped launching stuff and then yeah, so it's a good background of used to be a rapper. So I really Yeah, yeah used to make rap music. I had an album on Spotify for a long time I got taken off Spotify for some reason. I must not have paid the like tune the Not distro kid. What was I using tune core? Okay, but it's on it's on SoundCloud Why did you stop rapping? So I actually

I'll send you the link after like I actually think the music was pretty good But I had to get real sad to the best music I made was when I was the saddest so like the reason I started I was rapping in in college I freestyle it a lot so I don't know if you ever heard of time flies Tuesdays But I have the story is basically there's these two guys Cal and rez that made up this duo time flies Tuesdays I went to college from like 2011 to 2015 and so where'd you go freshman? I went to Miami of Ohio. Okay

So when we were freshmen, there were like girls on our floor and guys on our floor. And all the girls on Tuesdays at 7 PM would like aggregate in this one girl's room. And they were watching like Time Flies, the new Time Flies video. So we were like, what is that? And it was these two guys. One guy was like a singer, rapper, like really good looking. The other guy, still good looking, but like more like the DJ producer. they would, the DJ would make mashups of like EDM mashups of popular songs at the time.

and the rapper singer would pull topics out of a hat and just freestyle rap and they would make a video. And it was so popular and all the girls were in there watching it. They fiend over this guy. And so I was kind of like, yo, we got to figure out how to make our own time for last Tuesday's, get the girls in our room. And so all my friends tried to do the topic rapping thing. And everyone was so bad. I was bad, but not as bad as you would be just off the rip. So I felt like I had something. And then over my college...

Josh Felgoise (06:30.286)

time we would have parties and people would just be like, oh, can you do the rapping thing? And so I'd go in the back room, people would make a list of topics and I would do it. And so I had always been freestyling, but I had never made a proper album, proper songs, didn't know how to produce or anything. And when I started my consulting job, I hated it so much and it felt like it was draining the creativity from me. And so I would travel and I'd be in some random city, work all day, get home to the hotel at 10. And I was like, all right, you're not allowed to go to bed until you write a song.

And so I would like find a beat, write the full song, multiple verses, hook, go to bed. And so I did that every day for like a hundred days. And then I just packaged up like the, I thought the best kind of 15 tracks were. And then that was kind of like my album, but I had to be so, I was so sad, like at night when I was coming home from that job and like a lot of what I wrapped about was like the frustration of like being lost and not really knowing what to do. And so as I like prepped album number two,

It just, felt so much rage and like real sadness. And I was like, ah, this probably isn't like healthy for me to go down that like artist path. I gave it up. Wait, that's, but that's such a cool creative outlet that you like went to instead of just being like depressed or anxious and just like mad about your job. So, mean, this is a question I had for later, but this is a cool time to get into it. Like what advice do you have for somebody who's in a consulting job right now or in a career that they're just really not into? Yeah.

Well, I think like the number one thing that you need to realize when you're younger is hard skills are the most important thing. So I wish so if there was one thing I wish someone told me it was this. And so what does that mean? When I came out of school, I was kind of like the schemer guy where I was entrepreneurial, but like trying to take the lazy path. And so when I think lazy path, I'm like, all right, how do I do the least amount of work to get the reward? That was kind of like how

people approach school that way, right? You want to get this amount of work and get by. The problem is when you go to the real world, doing the least amount, if you have no skills, just puts you in this blender of average. And the only way to really escape in the corporate world is to have hard skills where you can compound those skills over time. So hard skills being like software development, design.

Josh Felgoise (08:48.074)

audio engineering, video engineering, writing, like anything where you can go end to end on, like if it was just you in a room, you could go from idea to producing something that someone might pay for. That's a hard skill. Soft skills are like communications, email, managing people. Like those are important if you want to be a manager, but if you don't have the hard skill base, it's not very defendable if you just have the soft skills. And so,

For me, I was trying to scheme and try to figure out how do I get to managing people so I don't have to do the actual work. But that just gets you in this, like I said, this blender that you don't want to be in. And so if you want to strive for great things and be entrepreneurial, build businesses, which is kind of like my mindset, you need those hard skills. And so that's my number one piece of advice. So what were your hard skills at the time when you were in that consulting job? So that's the thing is consulting, like I.

I'm sure if you're listening and you're a consultant, you're going to be upset about this, but consultants don't really have hard skills. So only hard skill a consultant has is data analysis. if you're savage at Excel, you can take data and build models. That is a hard skill. And you could argue, like, PowerPoint slides, like making PowerPoint slides is kind of a hard skill. But the majority of consulting is just taking information over here, organizing it in an email or on a call, and presenting it out. These are not hard skills.

So if you're trying to, most people, like you'll realize if you're trying to leave consulting and you, after a couple of years, it becomes really hard to get another role because let's say you want, you're a consultant and you go into it thinking, this will be like super versatile. I could do anything. But let's say you want to go into like a marketing role or a product role at a startup. You're five years of consulting. The reason most consultants go to business school is because they go and try to apply for these startup product roles or marketing roles.

and they're like, well, we'd rather hire someone who actually has been doing marketing for the last four years. You're really smart and you can communicate well, but you don't actually know the marketing stack. And so as a consultant, I ran up against this. Most people I know ran up against this where they're like, shit, the only thing I can really do is consulting. My training only begets either internal consulting or more consulting. So that's why most of them go to business school to try to pivot out. And then business school allows you to reset and then...

Josh Felgoise (11:07.084)

you can afford to start again without a hard skill and like learn that over time. So what would you recommend to somebody that may not want to do business school, but is in consulting or something that they're just like really sick of? What do you, what should they do? So that's, that's, you got to learn the hard skills. you have to pick which skill you want to actually build your career on. So for me, like I chose, I like writing a lot, but I also chose like this video editing, like content production as the first hard skill.

I could have gone down the coding route, but I didn't really like it. So that's path I chose, but there's a lot of like, it depends what you like, but you have to be able to take the medicine and go back to square one and be like, okay, I'm a beginner again. Like I am 25 or I'm 28. I have done this job and I like succeeded at this job, but I realize if I play this out till 50, I'm trapped. So I need to go back to square one. Like what is that hard skill? And I would just figure out what you want to do.

try to find the closest hard skill to that and then go on YouTube and just watch tutorials. mean, the best thing is to actually make something, right? So like, if you want to learn how to produce music, watching tutorials on YouTube is a good first step, but like you actually got to produce songs, like make songs. And then eventually after enough songs, you'll be good at that, right? Yeah, that's great advice. And I also feel like I'm getting you at a really cool time for this interview where you've been at this for now a year after your job. So what...

led to the decision to finally leave your job and do this full time? And I also want to hear, we'll get into more of your takeaways of a year of doing this. I have a lot of other questions, but like, let's start with that. What, what led to the final decision? Yeah. Well, the big thing is, and I'm, and I want to preface, like I'm speaking from a perspective, like entrepreneurial ism, like I feel like inside me, I've always wanted to build companies. so like, if you're listening to this and you, maybe don't vibe with the like lone ranger idea of like being an entrepreneur that

take that with grain of salt, like for me, corporate jobs are rigged games. So what's a rigged game? If you perform exceptionally, you don't get paid exceptionally. There's a band in the corporate job that you can only go as high as that band provides. So like if your salary band is 50 to 70 K, you could provide a hundred K worth of value, but the most they'll pay you is 70 K. That's a rigged game. You don't want to play rigged games. you're ex, if you feel like you're exceptional and have special ability, you want to go somewhere where there's uncapped upside.

Josh Felgoise (13:31.374)

The best place where there's unkept upside is entrepreneurship, where you control your own destiny, you own equity in what you're building and you can compound. for me, like I always knew I had to get out of rigged game corporate world and get to entrepreneurship. It's a balance though, cause like when you first come out of college, you're broke and you can't just play, you can't eat air. So you got to like make enough money to like pay your bills and then try to build the skills on the side, get those skills monetizing. So I spent nine years or whatever, eight years or seven or eight years, like

saving up so that I could take a swing when the time came. So I was like, I always thought, I mean, to go back to the story, I had launched a bunch of products that didn't work and business is really just distribution and product. You have like, can you sell the thing and what thing are you selling? Those are the two things that matter. So I kept doing the like, what am I selling game, but I hadn't solved the selling part. So I was like, why don't I just focus on the distribution first, get a huge audience that believes in me.

they'll tell me what to build, I can build a product later. So that's when I started doing content, but I was still had the full-time job while doing content at the same time. Brand deals started to come in, I started to see the views go up, followers go up, and then that's kind of why I left. So how did you manage doing your side hustle, your side project side thing at the same time as your full gig, as well as manage relationships and your own mentors?

mentality and your own mindset. How did you do all of that? Cause that's something I struggle It's really hard. Yeah. So I think it's important to pick the times where you care about work. You care about the corporate job and times you don't. And so I was fortunate to find or like finagle my way into a position where I was able to work from eight to one or eight to two remote. Nobody was checking up on me. I could do my, my minimum viable job. Yeah. Yeah. Then spend every other hour doing the thing on the side.

Now, like I'm like empathetic to the fact that most people don't have that luxury, especially if you're in person, like you're not going to be able to do a podcast while you're in the office or something else. Right. So you have to figure out a way to get around it. But at end of the day, like there's probably 10 to 20 hours a week that you could either like sacrifice social stuff or like do it on the weekends. And if you compound that for a year, you should be on your way, but it sucks. Right. Like it's you have to eat some sacrifice in order to do it.

Josh Felgoise (15:55.082)

And I think a lot of people want to be entrepreneurial, but they don't ever want to go through that period of like FOMO and missing out on the social stuff and the relationships and fitness. So yeah, you have to just figure out either how to structure your income source so that it's not a full-time thing or play the long game. I guess skipping to today, like a year out later, you've been doing this for a year on your own. How do you manage that stuff now? Like do you?

Is this, are you doing this all the time or is it you're making time for social stuff and dating and gym and mindset and all that stuff? Do you have FOMO? what, yeah, answer all of that, I guess. Yeah. I mean, I'm a little bit like robotic in the sense where like all I, all I need every day to be happy is like fitness and then work. love working. My wife though, is the like social engine. So she makes sure that like.

when the break is needed, she forces me into the break or like she plans a lot of the stuff. And like, I think she'd prefer if I also helped with that, if we're being fair, but like the kind of person I am is like, I will stay in the room for 24 straight hours and do something if that's what needs to be done. Like I just have that mode, but yeah, like if I wanted to work out.

Be my, like do mindfulness, care about my nutrition, start something on the side, have a full-time job, have a relationship, have friends, do like, if I wanted all that, you just can't have it. There's just not enough time unless you don't sleep eight hours. So you have to kind of pick. I'm kind of, the way I'm looking at it is like, well, A, I love this game. I wish I started sooner, but like it is what it is. But like.

I'm willing to sacrifice as much as I can now knowing that like later it just gets harder like when you need more sleep and your body's breaking down more and you have kids and like it'll forever get harder so if you can pull forward the suffering if you, if there has to be suffering you can pull forward that time as early as possible that's the best way to look at it long term but in my 20s I didn't give up anything like I didn't really do, you know like I didn't

Josh Felgoise (18:03.182)

We didn't go out on Sundays, like I was working most Sundays, but like I didn't really take a serious attempt until I was 30. So from 22 to 30, I was doing all the shit, all the Europe trips, all the 4 a.m. like club nights. I was getting drunk all the time. Like I was doing that. But like, so I don't have any regrets. Like I'm really happy that I live 20 hard, like my 20s hard, but yeah, like I would like not to work until I'm 65, you know? So I'm trying to figure that out.

I was going to ask you where in all this you met your wife, but I'm assuming somewhere in your twenties. Yeah. Yeah. I met her at, at the firm I was at before we like met on a philanthropy trip in South America. Oh, cool. Okay. Uh, so wait, are you sleeping eight hours a night? Is that something like, is that a priority of yours? You mentioned that and I'm always curious about sleep. Yeah, I am. I am. I I've tried to run the candle. So basically like REM cycles are 90 minutes, right? So if you do four 90 minutes, that's six hours.

You if you like basically when you wake up if you're tired It's because you woke up in the middle of a REM cycle You can get away with if you perfectly timed like exactly six you can get away with feeling okay for a few days in a row Usually people will wake up like slightly less than the four REM cycles or like into the fifth one Yeah, so for me, it's either six hours seven and a half or nine like I really want I'm trying to get one of those Perfect breaks because that's when you're like waking up So I kind of go for like seven and a half every night, but my schedule is like I wake up

Where first I do the meditation journal. What's it? What's a day in the life to walk me through that? Yeah, so the perfect day for me is I wake up I do like mindfulness So I have a journaling thing that takes two minutes and then I do a meditation for 20 minutes that I really like Visualize which I can talk about this. I this has been like one of our both of those I want to know both. Yeah I think this has probably been the biggest mental unlock and I started doing this like end of April and I've done it almost every day since then and Every really everything changed about my mindset

after I started doing this. So basically what I do is I'll wake up, I have like this journal and it's all I do is I write down a few affirmations. like, am grateful and I am abundant, I am healthy, I'm inspired, right? Like I have a few that I write every day and then I write them twice. Then I just write like daily intentions for me every day. It's just gratitude, abundance, optimism and greatness. I write that every single day.

Josh Felgoise (20:27.31)

And then if I have any notes that came to mind. So this is like the first thing I wake up to and do. Sometimes I don't have notes. Sometimes I do. So that just takes two minutes and that kind of primes me for the meditation, which the meditation is the most important thing that I do. And maybe I'll send you the one that I listened to where you can get the notes. But basically the first five or five or six minutes of the meditation is I listened to a Joe Dispenza. I don't know if you've heard this guy, but he's pretty, uh, pretty

pretty popular in the transformational meditation space. But basically, first five to six minutes is focusing on kind of like, it's trying to get you out of your own head. He has a way of doing it where you visualize certain parts of your body in a three-dimensional space, which for whatever reason gets you out of your own head. And then for the last 15 minutes, I'm really visualizing a dream future that I want. when I say visualizing it, it's like,

when I'm walking in the hallway, I can feel my feet hit the floor or like I can feel the breeze in the room go past my neck. Like I'm really, really detailed with what I feel when I'm in this thing. And after those 15 minutes, it sounds woo woo, but it's kind of like a down, it's like a download of the vision. And for some reason, like the universe just conspires to help you when you do, when you visualize these things, I don't know why. But so, and we can get into that as much as you want. I feel like a lot of people hear that and they're like,

They're like that's ridiculous, but I say all the time on this podcast that like this might sound woo-woo But I do it and I say that exactly what you just said and something I mentioned in last week's episode Something I've been doing every morning is when I I heard this from I think it was a Peloton instructor named Adrian Williams When you put your two feet on the ground in the morning, you say three things you're grateful for you think of three things so I did it this morning and it was I Had a great weekend last weekend. I'm looking forward to this weekend with my friends and I'm grateful for

having a great sleep. slept like eight hours and I usually don't. And was very happy about that. And it's just getting those three things of gratitude right out. And that's been my thing in the morning. It's kind of like what you do. It's a little different. But I'm going to add that I like that visualization thing a lot. I think that's really cool. The big thing is the the relationship between abundance and lack. And so really it comes down to like if you don't if you're abundant, which means like overflowing, you cannot.

Josh Felgoise (22:47.022)

be in lack and if you're not in lack you're not desiring and if you're not desiring you'll be like happy as you operate because you're not seeking a lack it's like it's already there like I have it's weird but like if you have everything you want then what else is there but to exist in happiness right and so when you visualize this future I visualize like me feeling abundance in the future and so I don't know it's like no that's somebody's

Go ahead. It helps me a lot. It helps a lot. think when I come out of it, I'm very happy and like I'm filled up basically. And that's, so that's the first thing I do. And then I walked it all go to the gym. So after like basically by nine 30 10, if I don't do anything else the rest of the day, I still kind of won. Right. Cause I feel good mentally and physically. So I always try to do that first. Some days like I'm trying to post something earlier, whatever, have an early meeting. I miss it, but I try to do that first.

And then the rest of the day is just like, how do I make the best shit possible? sometimes I have calls with brands to try to do brand deals, but most of the time it's like me scanning, like what's interesting to me, what videos can I make? Like what, how can I help others, whatever. So I'm just going through the day and I just jam pack as much as I can until I like run out of gas, like usually around five or six. And then we just do family stuff. And if I have to do another hour two at the end, I do. And it's really that like, it's pretty simple. So do you schedule like,

making content and like, like, do you like time block your day or just like schedule your day? How do you do that? I don't really rigorously do it because I found the, the more, the more lines I draw, the more, the worse I feel when I can't hit the lines or like I can't fit within the lines. So I just basically like people who need to schedule their day, do it because they, they almost like have to use it to stay disciplined. Like,

Okay, I'm gonna block an hour, because otherwise I won't do it. For me, discipline's not the issue. I am locked in, I want this badly, so if I have a free second, I'm going. So I just like to have it more free flowing. Cool, okay, and what's the gym look like for you? What's your current gym routine? Nice, I like how we're getting deep, deep into it. I like these conversations. These are some of my favorite conversations when I'm talking to somebody who I look at as being successful or is currently in a moment of success.

Josh Felgoise (25:11.7)

You just had Mark Zuckerberg on you. I will talk about that in a second But I like to get to like how you're structuring your day and what you're doing and I think it's helpful for guys who may not listen like other podcasts or as much as like you or I do and Yeah, hear from someone like you. So yeah, I love for sure Yeah, and like I will say I used to be the guy that would listen to all the morning routines and like be trying to hunt for like some hack or like something the truth is

Most you got to just find whatever like primes your system to be most optimized for whatever you're doing so like I'm trying to prime everything so that I can make the best possible piece of content because that's going to give me the best amplification effects later. Yeah. So if what makes me feel creative in the gym, I'll like do that more. And so I'll get even more tactical basically. So we do the meditation. That was very tactical. Then I'm taking protein in the morning. Momentous is what I or I take BPN.

between momentous and BPN, is bare performance nutrition if people want that. Cause I know sometimes people want the gear and like the stuff do, do. People like, I call this a toolkit to your, like a toolkit to your mindset, a toolkit, like a guide, whatever. People want to know what to do and they want to know like what. They want to know what to do. Yeah, yeah. First thing I do in the morning is rip that actually. So even before the meditation, I will drink one and a half scoops of protein just to like get 30 grams in or 40 grams in. Then I do the meditation.

Then I'll take creatine gummies. Create is like my favorite brand for this. So they taste really good. think creatine is one of the few supplements you should be sure, make sure you're taking. It's super good for you. Then when I'm in the gym, I usually do some form of cardio for the first 15 to 30 minutes. It's either incline walk, 15, three and a half, or it's like walk, walk, jog, run, jog, walk, jog, run, like staggering. Some form of that, just like get a sweat going.

And then, then I'll, I'll lift and I altered right now. I'm like, I have a three day split one day off and the split is chest tries back buys and then leg shoulders. And then I'll, I'll do like a more flexibility day. So I'll do the lift. That's usually like as heavy as I can possibly go without being like power liftery. Cause I find like when you go heavy, you get out of your head more. And then I'll, the most important thing is the sauna. I'll sit in the sauna for 20 minutes.

Josh Felgoise (27:30.326)

I try to go no music, like raw dog lasagna, which is kind of insane, but that last five minutes when you're like dying between 15 and 20 minutes, like that's where the real magic is made. Like you will feel so good if you can make it 20 minutes. So I'll do that. Come home at the end of my shower, I go full cold. So that's kind of like my cold plunge equivalent. Yeah. And then I'm, yeah, I'm primed at that, at that point, like I'm, I'm ready to rip. Cool. Okay. And why creatine? I've heard mixed. I know you're not a scientist. I'm not a scientist. I don't talk about this stuff, but like,

The only thing I've heard about creatine is that you can lose your hair and I don't have a good hairline as it is, so I'm afraid to take it. So yeah, why creatine and is that true? I've never heard about the hair thing, I know, so creatine is one of the most clinically studied supplements out there and almost all of the research is overwhelmingly positive. So effectively what creatine does is it allows more water to get into your muscles. So a lot of people, they'll take it, they'll look swoler, but.

most of it's like water retention. But it's also really, really good for recovery, muscle recovery. It's also good for cognitive. So for me, like I'll do that protein shake, I'll work out, and then I drink black cold brew, no food. And I like, I am just operating on peak performance until I eat. that, I try to go like as long as possible without food, cause I feel so clear. I think the creatine helps.

I don't know exactly, we'll have to follow up on exactly the metabolic reasons why, but it's very helpful. And I think there's a lot of misnomers and poor research on creatine, but it is one of the few, like, I think if I had to cut everything besides two things, it would just be creatine and whey protein. Those are the last two things I cut, because it's that effective. Cool. Okay. All right. I'll start. I'll take it. So as I mentioned, you just had Mark Zuckerberg on your show. Talk about that.

I thought that was really cool when I saw it pop up on my Instagram. You co-posted with Zuck and Meta and it was fucking crazy. So first of all, before we get into that, how did you prepare for that interview and were you nervous, anxious? What did you do? Yeah. So his social rebirth, rebrand is going to definitely be studied, I think for decades. The architect behind that, the girl on his team that kind of runs everything for him.

Josh Felgoise (29:52.11)

I was working very closely with her and so. What's her name? Yeah, like I don't actually know if she wants her name shared. don't know if she was, she told me once she's like, keep me out of it. she's like, I like to give her credit because she's super thoughtful and was very smart at coming up with this strategy. But basically he's effectively it's like.

If you want to be in culture, you need to be on the surfaces where culture happens, which is short form video, relevant podcasts and gifts and memes. And so they were, they like audited their comms and his personal comms. And they were like, all of our stuff is happening on like traditional TV channels and sleepy shows, but like all of culture happens on these other services. We got to get him on these services. So he started doing interviews with like more relevant creators that were up and coming and like on different formats.

The first time he did it was with one of my friends. They, went well. They asked him like some other names of people that were kind of like tech and creator focus, but also like bro-y cause he's like in his bro era. He's like fighting a lot. And so I, so perfectly my name came up on that. So, so yeah, so that's how it came about. And then yeah, prepping for it. Like I took a lot of time to think about what questions could I ask that he had never been asked for. I wasn't really trying to design it for clips more just like

If he came away with it happy, I'd be happy. so, yeah, so I think it went really well. Like it went as well as it could have gone in a lot of the, he was like agreeing with a lot of my takes and stuff. So I was happy with that. Nervous. I actually like weirdly, so it was a two week turnaround between when I found out I was going to interview him and when the interview happens. It was very fast. I weirdly wasn't nervous until like five minutes before my wife came in the room and was like, I'm so nervous. I'm going to throw up. And then I was like, oh shit.

So then I just sat there with the nerves for like the five minutes right before. yeah, it was good. After the first five minutes, it was, was chill. So what was your biggest takeaway from him? What did you learn from him? Why he, his emotional, like his EQ is off the charts. Like you can tell he's just, he's so good at locking in and being very present, which is admirable given like he's probably got more on his plate than almost anyone you can imagine. So that, that was like a, a like soft skill takeaway, which is really impressive.

Josh Felgoise (32:14.094)

he, talked about a lot of really interesting things. The reason we had the conversation was that they launched the like creator AI product, which is they're starting to have the AI incorporated into like creators, DMS to help them answer the DMS. So we talked about that, but, but more interesting than that was like, he talked about what the future of the AR glasses is going to look like. So the red may be in the meta Ray-Ban glasses. The first version is what's out. has AI microphone and camera in the STEM. It's like.

It's actually really impressive, but there's no, there's, there's no screen. Like it's just a lens. So he detailed what the product roadmap is going to look like for those. There's going be three, three versions. The version we have now is like the most basic. There'll be some middle ground where it's like some overlay, but like mostly not. And then the super souped up one, which is like full hologram in the glasses, like Tony Stark shit. He talked about that and how like he's been demoing that with people and they're going crazy for it. So

Hearing him like get excited about talking about the R &D whatever's in the in the lab. Yeah, that's pretty cool. That is really cool Was there anything you wanted to ask him that you either couldn't or just like felt like you probably shouldn't? I got to most of the questions. I had a few at the end that I was really excited about they were like not Not a AI creator related that we got to I think almost all of them Yeah, like in general like I'm just fascinated by how people tick like the psychology of it. And so just

The last question I asked him was like, if we took away his resources, how would he build a brand on social from scratch? Like knowing everything he knows. So that guy caught a little short. I wish he could have like went on that for a little bit longer, but yeah, everything else he covered. How does it feel going from Zuckerberg to me? Yeah, I mean, there you go. That's good company. Not nearly as good. Yeah. So wait, so back to you and your content. So I've been watching you since we first met and I've

been watching all your content. And in the past couple of weeks, you talked about a couple of things that really resonated with me and I think would resonate kind of back to the start of this conversation with anybody that's experiencing like a lull in their job or in their career, or maybe it's with the gym or maybe it's with sleep or truly anything passion wise. You talked about lack of focus, periods of lulls, and I believe it was baseline discipline were three things you talked about that I'm super interested in.

Josh Felgoise (34:37.293)

So I would love to hear, um, and you talked about this a little bit, like that you can lock yourself in a room for 24 hours and get everything you want to get done, but talk about the moments where you're experiencing the lull or the lack of focus and how you get out of that. Yeah. And it's a good, it's a good call out because it goes through ebbs and flows. I like to think of myself. have the, so the thing I talked about on that story is like, there's a difference between peak discipline and baseline discipline. Peak discipline is like,

If you had to go 24 hours in a row without eating, without water to lock in on one thing or your family dies, could you do it? Like to me, it's like how intense can you get in a moment? Then there's baseline discipline, which is like on the average day, how often are you checking your phone and getting distracted? Or like how often are you, you know you should be doing something that's like maybe not peak importance, but like you need to get it done and you don't, right? So like.

I have really, really high peak discipline where I can just go crazy, but on a baseline level, I'm, definitely ebb and flow, like I'm not perfect. And I think the thing is when you do tasks that you love to do, you never have a problem hitting them, but there are certain things in the content creation workflow that I hate. Like I hate editing. really do. It's like my least favorite thing. And so if I'm sitting here, if you just told me like,

I want you to make a banger video tomorrow, all you have to do is find the topic and script it. I'll do that. I'll never miss because I love doing that. But if you said, but I also need you to edit the whole thing, then I'm like procrastinating. find myself not doing it. And so like my baseline discipline is not as tight as it needs to be to force myself to do the thing I don't like to do. And so the problem is when the most important thing you're doing for me, which is shipping videos, there's a piece of that you don't like doing. That's a big part, which is editing.

I gotta find a way around that. I either have to hire for it or I just need to get better discipline. And so I think people go through lulls. Sometimes it takes a day, two days, sometimes a week, but yeah, I mean, it's hard. The fitness routine we talked about is like a foolproof way to get out of those lulls. So I always have that. Like I've never been in one and tried to like do the workout sauna meditation thing for three days in a row and not gotten out of it. So that's like a guaranteed way to get out.

Josh Felgoise (36:52.994)

But you also have to realize it's a long game. so for me, in my head, there's a clock where I'm like, if I haven't posted in X amount of days, I start feeling fidgety. But that's just myself creating that urgency. That's not real. I could go three weeks without posting and everything will be fine. Nothing's going to happen. So a lot of it's in your own head, I'd say. So I guess I want to push you on that a little further and talk about how to get

back into the focus is because like I get that way too. like with video, video editing is my worst thing. I don't do it. Like I would like to make more clips. heard your take on podcast clips and I'm curious about that too. but I like editing audio. don't like editing video. So I, I find myself not doing it and then getting upset at myself about not doing it. And like, set this big standard for myself to post once a day, a clip of my podcast and I haven't done it for two weeks and then I fall out of it for another week or so. So like, what do you say to me in that moment and how should I get back out of that?

It's really tough because you have to you have to be like honest with yourself. Like, do you have the go get to make yourself do it? And if you don't, then there you have to find an alternative, which either means paying money for someone to do it and like hiring it away or just accepting the fact that it's not going to get done. Like there's really only three paths. It's either you do it. No one does it or you pay someone else to do it. It's like that simple. And I think it's helpful actually to think that it's like to realize it's that simple and be like, okay, well.

I'm gonna be honest with myself, I'm not doing it. So cross that off the list. So I have two other options. Like, am I willing to pay $200 per video for this? Yes or no. Can I, will I? If I don't, then it's not gonna get done. And you just have to like be okay with the fact that it's not getting done. If you weren't okay with the fact, then you would do it, right? So like, think of it this way. If I were to pay you $500 every time a clip got posted, you wouldn't miss. So the incentives for you to post are not high enough and you have to ask yourself, aren't they?

Is it because you feel like the clips don't actually drive the growth that you thought they would or what? Like you have to get to the get to the bottom of that. Like everything is incentive. So you're not incentivized enough to sacrifice your nights out to do it. So you either have to change that incentive or figure out a way to get what you want without going through that path. That's a great answer. That's that was a super cool way to think about it. And I think it is all back down to incentive. Right. Like it's like think about like cleaning your room like

Josh Felgoise (39:14.358)

if you don't do it for two weeks and you just keep not doing it, what's the incentive to clean it? Maybe somebody's coming over or maybe you finally want to clean it for certain reason. You need that big incentive to get you to do it. Well, to go down this path, let's play this all the way out. Yeah, let's do it. What do you want from this podcast? If you were being really honest with yourself, what do you want to get from it? Cool question. I want somebody who is...

was in my shoes. like the reason I started it was when I was in junior year of college, in my junior year of college, one of my best friends and I moved to New York for the summer for like a 10 week internship, each of us. And it was the first weekend and we were both like, what are we supposed to wear going out to a bar or a club? Like, where do we go? What do we do? And we didn't really know who to ask. We kind of felt embarrassed like having to ask a friend or asking a sibling or asking somebody. So we Googled it.

checked Reddit, we checked Quora, and there was really no good answers. So I decided at that moment to make a blog. And then I decided that I don't even read blogs, so why am I writing a blog? And I just had to make a podcast. And I, well, the way I did that was I interviewed 50 guys, like 50 of my friends, friends of friends, my senior year of college. It was for a class, was for an entrepreneurship class, but also like a passion project. I was, the professor was like, why don't you interview five people? And I was like, I'm gonna do why not? Like, let's see if this is actually something that people care about or interested in. And.

I found out that people were and people didn't really have an answer or solution to this problem. So I started this and it was a year, about a year later, I finally got myself to do it. I got over the people are going to talk about it. People are going to think differently of me, all that shit. I got over all of that and I decided like, this is something I'd really want to see in the world. So I'm going to create it. So what I would really want from this is somebody who was in my position two years ago or somebody in it now currently.

to find this and be like, okay, there's someone talking about the things that I want to hear about and someone trying to find the solutions to it. So that's what I want from this. And so the reason you would want, the reason you think you should be doing the clips daily is cause you want it to grow faster, basically. I want somebody to be able to find it. Yeah. Okay. So, and and so the, to go keep going down the tree, like maybe there's other ways to get people to find it faster.

Josh Felgoise (41:31.778)

Like clips is one way, but maybe there are other ways which we can maybe brainstorm. like when you post the clips, do you feel like the clips get pretty solid reach or not really? Somewhat, sometimes. Yeah, cause I think in general, like, cause this is like, and this is the, think it's helpful to hear the back and forth for someone listening. Cause this is like the logic tree you have to go down. Right? So like, okay, what I want is more people to find it. Yep. How can people find it? They can either.

be told from a friend, which is going to happen, which is like a great endorsement, but doesn't happen that often unless you like ask them to, which not that many people will do anyways. They could find it on the YouTube homepage, right? Cause you put out the video episode of this. So there's like the natural tailwind of the YouTube homepage. And then there's clips, which are ideally like a faster growth engine. yeah, if you go to that logic tree, you're like, okay, the best way of the three to get people to find this is going to be clips. So if I really want people to find it, then I need to post clips.

Which kind of is a better incentive than I haven't really thought through that and I think it's a great reason to do it and a good push to do it Yeah, and I would say like one clip a week is better than none Three is better than one so like inching up to because I think sometimes people get in the trap of they're like alright The gurus are saying do it daily I'm doing it daily and then you miss a day and you're like fuck I'm not doing it at all because like you missed the streak. I think just like inching your way up to whatever volume you feel like you can do and

Yeah, I mean it's like how strong of an incentive do you have for people to find this? Like if that incentive was stronger than you paying rent, you'd quit your full-time job and only make clips. So like the incentive is not above that. It's like somewhere in the middle. So you just have to figure out like what you're willing to give up. And that's that's a healthy way to look at it. think and I think that honestly applies to everything, right? Like if if somebody is looking for a new job and they are in that cycle of like, you know what? I am still in this job. It's fine. And they like keep pushing off applying for jobs. They keep

pushing off, looking for jobs. I think that it applies to that too. You can easily push that off, but if the incentive became greater, you would do it more often, right? Yeah. Another way to look at it too is like, okay, you don't need to make a clip a day. You need $100 a day, which is the cost to get a clip made. So if you really hate doing it, then can you find another way to get $500 a week, which then can buy you the clips from someone else and you just trade the money. So like...

Josh Felgoise (44:00.736)

you might not, you might hate video editing, but you might be amazing at like marketing strategy. And so you're like, okay, I'll pick up like a consulting client somehow that'll pay me $500 a week. And that is basically, they're like paying me the clips. And so that's another way to do it, right? It's just, you can't bring yourself to do it, because I think it's easier to make money and farm it out than it is to force yourself to do something you don't like doing, like at scale consistently. So that's another way. How would you market a podcast like this?

So this is, I mean, this is a great question, right? Because I think when I started, I started with short form video, but I started with native short form video. And the reason I did that is because, and we can go through this, this tree as well. There's like four or five types of content you can make. There's short form video. There's long form video, which we'll call like YouTube 10 to 20 minute videos. There's podcasts, which if you're doing audio only podcasts, it's probably not going to work. So we'll assume it's like video and audio like 60 minutes.

episodes. And then there's like email newsletter and then maybe Twitter. So those are like the short form, short form written long form written. So those are like the five main formats. Each one has pros and cons, natural tailwinds, natural headwinds. You have to decide based on your skillset and also like how long you're willing to wait for it to work. So for a podcast inherently the podcast is the slowest to grow, but it is the deepest trust.

So if you are able to grow it, that's why all the podcasters make so much money because I think I have this framework called content minutes. like imagine in order to get a person to convert to a super fan, they had to consume 90 minutes of you. If you make one minute shorts and they watch the whole thing, that's 90 shorts. Or if you make a 90 minute podcast, that's one podcast. So it's way easier to get to that bar quicker with longer formats. But the trade off is it's harder to get them.

So there's only two ways to grow a podcast. One is inside out. So getting YouTube to serve you more. And the other is outside in, which is bringing people to the episode from the outside. Clips are outside in. think clips can work. the problem is, and this this gets to my point before of like podcast clips are not great for short form. Right. Basically, when someone's consuming on reels or TikTok, there's a certain type of consumption pattern they're looking for. There's a certain pacing.

Josh Felgoise (46:23.18)

Most podcasts happen slower than that natural pacing. So yeah, you can like cut the dead space and try to like chop it up. And some pods are better at this than others, but like it's not natively designed for short form versus if you were to have a sick clip, but then you, after the fact recorded the first five seconds again, native for short form and then attach the rest, that might be better. And so what I'm saying is most people assume they can just feed the podcast into

some AI clips engine and then the engine you just post the clips and it works and it just isn't the case. Like that just doesn't work that well. So in terms of how to grow it, the two levers I would look at is better packaging on the YouTube. So better thumbnail, better title, like trying to actually, cause if you have Erica Nardini on here, like you're getting high quality people, right? So if I don't know how many subscribers you have on YouTube, but if it's not growing, it might be the packaging, you know? So that's inside out. And then yeah, clips, I think.

I think you're better off building a brand around you via short form that doesn't have to do with the podcast, but you just talk about the podcast and like occasionally clip it. That's what I do. I talk. Yeah. That's the best way I think. That's exactly what I do on Tik Tok. And then I've now built a second page for the podcast. My friends are like, what is this second page you're doing? You don't even need the second page. Like think about who's that guy? Jake Shane, right? He has that podcast is very popular.

But I bet what drives more people to his podcast is the videos he does where he's like acting like seven eight nine or whatever the like whatever he does with the reenactments Yeah, like the clips sometimes go viral like he had that one with Glenn Powell that went nuclear that those go viral sometimes but Just getting in the orbit of him being funny and be like, oh where can I get more of this guy? Yeah, then they'll go into the podcast that that's that I think is the best way to grow it. That's super interesting It's a really cool take. I like that a lot

What has been your best way of growth? How have you grown the biggest and what do you reckon? Like what have you done best? For me, shorts is the one thing I've like figured out predictably and it just took like a million reps. But I finally got to like I can go viral at will with shorts, but that doesn't. How do you do that? Well, there's there's a lot of things I think topic selection matters a lot. So like, are you picking something that has broad appeal? Then.

Josh Felgoise (48:38.722)

the framing of the packaging, is in short, like the hook and like the first couple of sentences, are you giving something for people to grab onto? So I often talk about brands they know or celebrities they know, or like people they know so that there's some common ground. And then I try to give like a more unique perspective. So it's not just me spewing the news, but like it's some story plus my take. And I think like that packaging over time, like it gets better and better. Like if you study my videos, you can kind of see the

Pattern yeah, but that doesn't just because I have like a lot of followers and views on shorts doesn't mean I'm like Extracting a lot of money from it or like I have deep fandom because to get to the content minutes point Yeah, I've now done 300 videos. Maybe somebody discovered me 40 videos ago I still they're still not a fan like that's only 40 minutes, right? So I think that's the thing I figured out. I'm trying to figure out YouTube though right now. That's my main focus YouTube stuff. It's a whole different beast. Yeah How do you make money right now?

Mostly brand deals. So I've like Google, Meta, Adobe, like I've had some big companies come in for brand deals. I try to do like maybe one or two brand deals a month and that's able to cover my costs. And then mostly that's mostly it though. I don't have any products yet. I have no services. I have no businesses really attached to the content. I was kind of only focused on building trust initially. I still don't feel like my audience is deep enough. I'm like, which is crazy to say, like if you're looking from the outside, but

What makes you say that? why do you think that? I think like, so if you drew a spectrum, the deepest audiences come from live streamers and then podcasters and then YouTubers and then back and back and back and then somewhere short form only is like the last one. Yeah. So why is that? It goes back to that content minute perspective. Like I just don't think, I think a way to assess depth is comments. like,

Absolutely. Do people go crazy for your videos? Like when you post, are they just like, I love you so much. Like I get some of that, but not that much versus like a live streamer is like, can go to the park and get swarmed and like people flipping cars to see them. So yeah, order to build a real sustainable business on top of an audience, most creators think they can do it. can't do it. Their audience is not deep enough. I'm like, I guess aware enough to know that I don't have the depth yet. I'm starting to get the skills, which is good.

Josh Felgoise (51:05.72)

but from a depth perspective, I need to go much deeper. And so that's why I'm trying to supplement with like 10 to 20 minute YouTube videos. And then like, I have a podcast I'm still trying to dial in, but like, what else can I add in terms of depth? Can I share an unsolicited take on your content? Yeah, yeah. I actually was going to ask you this. Can you give me your feedback on what you think I should do more of? Yeah, I've been following you now for like what? Two months since we first met. So, or three months, I think. So the one thing that I think

I like the best about your content is your stories. I mentioned three topics from your stories that I love and I loved hearing your takes on them, but they're not posted to your grid so I can't see them again and I can't comment on them and engage with you about them. The only ones that are in your grid are like the product and like those videos go really viral, but the ones where I get to know you as a creator or a person are the ones where you're sharing your mindset around doing this and confidence and lulls and all that stuff.

So I wonder why you share that only to stories and not to your content, like to your grid. I yeah, and you'd prefer to see it in the feed? Yeah, I I think you would get more comments than you. Like you're saying you can only tell based on, or one of the best ways to tell about your audience is based on comments, which I completely agree with. But how do you know the comments if it's only on stories? Yeah, yeah, that's fair.

My, like if I'm being honest, the reason I haven't posted those is cause I feel like I have such a premium quality product of like the videos that are well made. And then if I start putting those like walk-in talks, it's like, it's like mixing generic with luxury. Right. And like, and my fear was always, if I did that, it would like sacrifice the overall brand quality or like the aesthetic of it. But I may just be overthinking in that sense. Well, it's a, it's also super interesting take, right? Like I.

I think the opposite where like my TikTok and my content is super shitty and it's like me sitting right here, like just on a quick take about whatever happened. I posted one two days ago and I got a million views. It's just like a dumb take. Damn. Hell yeah. Yeah. And then like yours is much more premium. And I think I can't post these clips to my regular stuff because it looks too premium compared to my other shitty content. It's just we're total opposites in that way.

Josh Felgoise (53:24.794)

And I think when I post the premium stuff, likes it because it's too opposite of what I usually do. But yeah, so we're complete opposites in that respect. I wonder, so I started making these other satellite channels where every time I post a video, I'll collab post with myself on like the theme ones. But then I had one that was designed to be just my walk-in talks, but having to go from scratch on that, I'm like, fuck, like it's just going to take so long to like get, get.

like any altitude with that. But yeah, I think I like, I think you're right. Like I should, I should post those more. I mean, I have like the story highlight, but no one knows that it's hidden in there. Like if you really wanted to watch all of them, that's not a good, it's not a good engagement method. mean, it's, it's something, but like I don't, don't, don't take my word for like gospel obviously, but I think that is a way that I've gotten to know you much further and much deeper than your regular content, which I love as well. But it's, it's the way I've actually gotten to know you as a person.

before this interview and gotten to like form my questions around your real life. Yeah. Yeah. So maybe I should do more of that because I have this take that like people want realness. They want raw so bad and like on Instagram my my raw output is those stories and like on YouTube I don't really have that. I'm trying now. Like I just posted a video today that's more of a raw take. I kind of want to start doing live streams where I'm like like imagine we're having a live consulting session for for your company like

me helping you, but on live stream you can come in for 20 minutes. can bring like, that's more of like a live raw version. So I'm trying to do like more of that. Yeah. I'm trying to do more of that. So yeah, that's good feedback though. What else? Anything, any other feedback you have for me in terms of like things you want to see more of, guess the stories is a big thing. Have you seen any of my other stuff? Like, do you read the newsletter? Have you seen me on YouTube? Nice. And I want to ask you about the blueprint as well, because that's your year.

I think that's my biggest piece of feedback honestly like I love what you do otherwise and you have obviously mastered it a lot more than me I have like 12,000 followers on tik-tok like it's not like a Big platform and I just post random shit and it sometimes goes yeah, sometimes it doesn't well What did you talk about that went a million views? talked I'll pull it up. Hold on Were you like holy shit? I can't believe this was that your first one crazy it happens kind of often to me, but it doesn't always convert Yeah, yeah, I met this artist. I don't know if you know who Gracie Abrams is

Josh Felgoise (55:49.046)

I've heard great. was Gracie Abrams, the one that came out for Noah. Noah. Yes. Yes. Yes. Noah Khan. I saw something. One of my favorite artists, by the way. I met her on the street and that got 2 million views. And I just like talked to the story time about that. And then there was another time I sat in front of Kate Upton at a Phillies game and that got like 7 million views and like the Daily Mail wrote about it. And then there was another, there was a recent time where I went, to six flags and bought a diet Coke and it got.

million views and like all these like articles picked up and like wrote about me in these articles but like that's happened a bunch which is which is amazing it's fun what what do you think about this right so like you're getting all these views they're there maybe not converting to followers but in your like mind as a content person are you like like do you zoom out from that and think okay most of this short form is like just junk food that people are just looking for stories and like there really is no investment in the person telling it

Or is that like, how do you look at it? Cause I'm curious. That's a lot of views to like have it not really convert. I know. well it's converted into like, like over 10,000, which I think is a ton for tick tock. don't think, I don't think people follow a lot anymore is kind of my big take on it is like, it takes a lot for someone to want to follow you. And I agree for every a hundred K that views, maybe get a hundred followers. That's kind of how I look at it, which is maybe totally wrong. It's just.

for me personally. What was your question? I forgot. Just like as a content thinker, like a content mind, what is like when you like there's one thing with like advising to the company, like if your CEO is like, we need to be on shorts, even if you don't really believe it, you'll be like, all right, cool. But like, what do you actually believe in terms of like the different types of engagement on different formats? Like is there, is there durability in shorts?

to get real fans or are you just like, it's kind of junk food? I think that tick. I also don't really know if you realize that started like rapidly sweating from this light that I have behind me and I know it's all good. So I turned it off, but I think Tik Tok is a really fun platform and I love, I love posting my shit like shit there. I think it's just the most creative outlet I have and I will say an opinion and maybe it'll hit, maybe it won't. But

Josh Felgoise (58:10.41)

I think it engages people, people comment. It's how Jake Shane blew up, really. He just posted his funny shit. And one of my friends was one of his first followers, maybe when he had like thousand, two thousand followers, for like two years, by the way. And then he blew up and people found him really quickly and then it blew up quickly. But I think, as you told me when we first met, it was kindling, right? It's like all that stuff you're kind of setting and then one blows it up. But for me personally, I don't have the...

Value yet. I don't I don't bring that content and I and I just haven't developed it like I'm starting to yeah I'm sorry makes like dating guides and stuff like that that I think is really like the meat and potatoes of what I'm gonna do but I Really do think tick tock and then reels are the other way to go Yeah, you just got to keep go. I think you need the if there's nothing but this they came out of the pod.

I think you should be ripping those TikToks that are not clips of the pod, it's you, same version of you that would be on the pod, but just like designed for TikTok, keep ripping those and then you'll grow and the residue will come to the podcast. think you have what's required to be able to do this full time, I think, and make like a dope brand, but I don't think podcast clips are gonna get you there because it's too hard to force the magic moment, right?

Maybe the serendipity of like us talking about your Kate Upton story came up and like maybe you told it in a way that was good and maybe you could clip it but like it's so much easier if you were just on the couch by yourself just ripped it two times and then you're like, that's good and then go, you know, like it's so much easier to get it to work. So I would do that though and then make sure you don't give up on the podcast so that this catches the people, you know, when they find you. wanted, thank you for saying that first of all, cause I really appreciate that. But I wanted to.

first make sure I could actually consistently do this for a year before I thought this was gonna be my thing and it's just become a passion. I love talking to people like you. I would have had no other reason to continue my conversation with you had I not had this. I forget what the name of the podcast you were on was but the guy said it took him 50 episodes to really blow up. I don't really check my numbers. I don't check my numbers for this. I really love doing it.

Josh Felgoise (01:00:28.876)

believe what I said to you, that's not fake. And like, I really think if I had had this in college and had heard these conversations from someone my age, it would have really benefited me. And there's a lot of value in like a young guy like myself, and it doesn't have to be me, it could be anybody, but someone that's just actually doing it, talking about mindset and mentality and dating. And I had this one kid come up to me, I'm giving you really long format answer, sorry, to stop me if I'm going too long. No, no, let it rip.

But I had this kid come up to me at like a networking conference I was at and he was like, you don't know me, but you sent your podcast and a group me I'm in. And I've listened to your podcast every single week and I live in Seattle and, hearing that you kind of have the same uncomfortable situations or dating situations and like you're as awkward as I am and talking to girls as, as me in Seattle, you in New York city place, like I would love to live and just can't right now.

Hearing that makes me feel so much more comfortable and makes me feel so much less alone and i'm like that is why I do this like if If I can get more people to say to have that feeling that's what I I really do believe that so I Do this because I love it and it doesn't like we talked about sacrifices and it doesn't really feel like a sacrifice I don't feel like i'm missing out on the plan right now Because i'm talking to you like I would rather be doing this. I really do love it. So I'm sure you feel that way too, right? Yeah with my content. Yeah Yeah, like that. I mean

The mindset shift that I've had from going full time on the content is the greatest gift I could have given myself. So that alone, like now I'm bulletproof mentally and I can do anything from here. Everything's gravy, mostly cause I hated my job before. Now it's fun, like this going full time, like I'm a completely different person. So from that perspective, like there's nothing better I could have done with my time from the content specifically. If you're trying to build a business, there is no better weapon than having unlimited distribution because

If you just look at the economics of a product, most of it gets wasted on marketing. And if you don't have to pay that and or just have better know-how, you'll win faster. Like you just will. So I'm glad like strategically, this was the best bet anyway, but I'm glad that I ended up liking it also. What did you learn about yourself in the past year? Like what, what, what, what's your biggest takeaway from going into this and like knowing yourself a lot better? Yeah. Well, the biggest thing is like,

Josh Felgoise (01:02:52.27)

I don't know, it, some of the things in my own head, think sound extremely conceited when I say out loud. So I try to like put a filter through what I actually think to myself, but like, like I knew I had the capacity to be dope. I just didn't know what the vehicle was. And so by forcing myself to sit down and obsess and compound my thinking over and over and over and like give myself no way out, it allowed me to force that vehicle, like to create a lane that like a proving.

that proving that you're able to do that is dope in itself, right? Like teaching yourself and like proving to yourself that you can craft a lane and like fulfill and execute is dope. That's one thing. The other thing is I think a lot of people assume that there's like an end point, right? So like, let's say your number's 20 million. If I gave you 20 million and you had that in a bank account, most people would be like, I'd be done at 20 million. Like, yo, I'm going to South of France. The truth is like,

If you went to South of France and you had 20 million, you'd be sitting there and like maybe four and a half months in, you'd be sipping your like thousandth Aperol spritz and you'd be like, why am I agitated? Like why is my brain firing in a way that's not relaxing? And the truth is humans were built and bred to work. Your brain is a problem solving mechanism and if you don't have any problems, your brain will create problems for you. And so when you realize that you're like, oh shit, I have to be.

Working on or playing some game forever or else I'm gonna start atrophying like my body would just start fighting itself Yeah, and so knowing that and being like shit. Well, like this is a game I like playing I have to play a game forever There's some money in it that will increase over time Why don't I just do this forever? that was the second thing that I was able to pull out of this first year is like This is pretty fucking fun. And like yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'm gonna have to be playing something forever. So might as well, you know, that's cool

I like that. That's a really, really good answer. has your I mean, you talked about like your confidence and I'll end it here. It's my kind of my final question for you. But like you talked about you said, like, I always knew I could be dope, but I didn't know in what capacity or how I could pull it out of me. What would you say to somebody early 20s, mid 20s? can be late 20s, even your age. Like I this is this podcast really for anybody like throughout where we're at.

Josh Felgoise (01:05:15.106)

that's kind of struggling with their confidence doesn't really know where they want to go or what direction they want to take. Like, what would you say to that person who is struggling to develop their confidence? Yeah. And, like, to be clear, there were, there were times where I definitely struggled with my confidence as well. someone's going to listen to that and be like, damn, this is a douche bag. But like, just, I'm just trying to like, be like, no veil, like just say like how it is. Yeah. The truth is what makes you confident is when you know that you can achieve a result over and over.

like doing something and the best way to find confidence is to find the thing that you're good at that you can get better at that the world values. And so whatever that is, like that could, it's better if it's a hard skill like we talked about, but it be anything. Like if you're just the best bowler in the world and you hate everything else, when you bowl, you're going to feel like a dog and like you feel that way because you're good at it and you're getting better at it and like you care. So if somebody lacks confidence in every area,

There's, probably have one or two things that they're actually have like a natural knack for, but they, but they've suppressed doing it because they're like, the world doesn't really value that. I would just find a, find a habit or routine that allows you to do that more because by doing that more, you'll start feeling better about yourself. Cause you're like, I am good at that. Like there are things I'm good at. I would do that. And then the other thing is fitness. Fitness is like the ultimate it's asymptotic. There's no way you can win. It's just, you get better and better and better. And the, the

The side effect of fitness is dopamine. So it's like, if you want to feel better about yourself, both looks-wise and like literally physiologically, just run harder, lift harder. Like I would always start with fitness if there's a guy listening that's not confident. Great, great answer. And I'm happy to end there with you. Is there anything else you wanted to hit on or anything else you wanted to say before we wrap it up? I just want to say congrats with the show. 60 episodes, 61 episodes is no joke.

Legit and I think like what 1 % of podcasts have more than like 20 episodes or something. So you're you're on your way Thanks. I appreciate that. Yeah, just thanks for having me on Absolutely and tell everyone where they can follow you and and about the wavy labs and all that stuff as well Yeah, so if if you like what I was saying and you want to check me out on YouTube or Instagram or tik-tok it's at Kane Calloway So kane and then Calloway k-a-l-l-a-w-a-y

Josh Felgoise (01:07:42.754)

You'll find me, I have like a red profile picture with sunglasses on. That's like for my socials. And then I think the best thing I make weekly is blueprint, which is the weekly newsletter kind of covering like metrics, how much money I'm making experiments and stuff. So that's the website blueprint.game. If you just go to that, you can check it out. Super cool. Okay. Thank you. And I'm, I'm thrilled that we made this happen and we will be in touch that this was, this was awesome. Thank you so much. Hell yeah. Thank you so much for having me.

Absolutely. Thank you so much listen to guys said a guy's guide to what should be talked about if you like this episode I really hope you did please like subscribe give this podcast five stars. That's one two, three four five on Spotify Apple podcast wherever you're listening. It doesn't really matter I really appreciate that if you have any questions, let me talk about and they should be talked about send to my email Josh at guys set comm j o s h at gu is et comm or to my DM is that the guy set th e gu is et and I'll be sure to talk about it if there's any resources we talked about they're probably below in the show notes you can find them all there

Thank you so much listening, I truly truly appreciate it and I will see you guys next Tuesday. See you guys.