The Mental Health Conversation Guys Never Have with Gabe Finnell

Josh Felgoise (00:00.204)
Welcome to Guy's Set, a guy's guide to what should be talked about. I'm Josh, I'm 24 years old, and I'm here to find all the tips, advice, and recommendations for everything you're wondering about. Let's get into it.

Josh Felgoise (00:17.912)
Hi guys, welcome back to Guy's Set, a guy's guide to what should be talked about. After I released episode 56, which was titled Under Anxiety Attack, about a recent experience I had had with anxiety, my friend Gabe texted me and let me know that he's learned a lot of really helpful tips from his recent experiences that he's had with anxiety, which happened to be pretty different from mine. And we had a really unique conversation that night that I'm not sure a lot of guys have had with their friends.

And I feel like I can make that assumption because it's not really a conversation I've ever had with a friend about anxiety or about each other's separate experiences with anxiety. And we talked for like 45 minutes after work one day about how anxiety is such a varying spectrum and how people deal with it so differently and how people experience it so differently and how guys just don't talk about it. And after that conversation, Gabe and I talked about him coming on the podcast to share his experience.

And I'm so grateful for him for doing this. And what he said is that like, if he can come on here and help one guy with his experience and with the way he's dealt with it by going to therapy and being really honest and open about it, then he would love to do it. And how brave is it for someone to be able to share something that really most people rarely talk about to themselves, nevertheless, their friends or family and do it for anybody to hear.

because you hope it positively influences somebody else. And I just feel like this is one of the episodes that I'm so proud to release and I'm so happy that Gabe is here with me to do it. My biggest takeaway from this episode is that if you're dealing with something and you don't know what to do about it, you're not broken and you're not alone and you're resilient for wanting to put yourself back together again.

I feel so lucky to be able to put this episode out with Gabe and to have it in the roster of episodes of Geisset to come back and listen to anytime anyone needs it. And I hope it helps you and I hope it inspires you to share more of your own experiences with your friends and your family and anybody else in your life. So without further ado, please welcome my friend Gabe Fennell to Geisset.

Josh Felgoise (02:27.726)
Today we have with us Gabe. Welcome to the podcast. Ciao. I like your little headset. You're like an airline pilot. Do you want one? No. Okay. I have a second. Can you introduce yourself? Tell everybody who you are, how we know each other, what you do, where you live, all that. All that. Your social security number, you know. yeah, I'd love to. I'm a Sagittarius, first and foremost. What does that mean? No fucking idea. The stars, I think. I'm a Gemini. Sounds amazing. I know. Hi everyone. I'm...

Gabriel Colfinella if you wanted my middle name. I live in Philly currently and I'm currently working in cancer research I hope to go to med school one day, but I've always been a health care guy and I'm doing that where it's affordable. So Welcome to me. Okay, and how do we and how do we know each other? We know each other from Lehigh. were in school together in San Fraternity I'm just one of the one of the bros That's right and Gabe's here for the weekend for one of our friends parties and we found a great time to do this in person because I think doing this in person is a lot better but

I did an episode about anxiety called Under Anxiety Attack and after I did that episode, Gabe texted me and he was like, hey, like, number one, what did you say? Do remember what you said? Well, yeah, was kind of like, you hit on a lot of important beats when you did your episode, I mean, didn't just like life and recent developments. As someone like now who has anxiety, I just wanted to, you know, follow up and be like, hey, this is what I've been through. This is what I've been experiencing. So maybe if you wanted to do like a follow up with your audience, you could add a few things in.

Um, and then we just decided why not just do it together. Yeah. So, basically like we talked for like 45 minutes one day after work and Gabe told me like all the things he's doing to help his anxiety or like kind of work through his experience with it. Personally, I didn't even know you experienced it. We never talk about it. I've been, uh, under the radar about it. Well, it's not something people talk about. I think is like the, it's kind like the underlying thing we got to in our conversation was that like guys don't talk about this really ever.

then Gabe was like, well, I could do it on your podcast. And I was like, if you want to come on, would love to have you on. No, was, I was like, this would be, then what you said, you were like, if it could help somebody, that would be the goal. So that's, that's why we're here today. obviously like no experience is like the other, like everybody goes through it differently, but if some way, somehow our conversation today can help somebody listening, then we've done good. And that's what.

Josh Felgoise (04:48.11)
Sorry, I didn't mean to... And that's what we're going for. No, no, I completely agree and I think that's important and also just cool. Like it's cool that we can do this and hopefully help at least one person with it. So can you kind of start by telling me like or telling everybody like what your experience is like with anxiety when it started, how it happened, all that? Yeah, so I guess leading up to like the breaking of the dam, if you want to call it that. I'd always had like...

Little moments of kind of like stress chest like my chest would get pretty tight But kind of like how you were describing in your last episode like it would only last you know Five ten minutes and I just tell myself to like shut the fuck up or like get over it like you know, and it go away Yeah, yeah, and that was always like my preliminary experience with like stress and anxiety, but it wasn't really like anxiety and it's like truest form And I think just like a few months ago I went through like a bunch of different changes in my life I moved to a new city didn't really have like an established friend group in Philly that I moved there

you know, like relationships ended and it's just like, it was a very pivotal moment in my life. And I think my body just kind of gave out and, we had our little housewarming, which is awesome. Like seeing all you guys, I think it reminded me like in that moment of like what I didn't have in Philly anymore. And then the next morning I like woke up and my chest was like super, super tight. Like I felt like my heart was like beating out of my chest. I felt really fidgety. I couldn't sit still. and it was really jarring. Like I had no idea what was going on. So naturally I thought I was having a f****g heart attack and I went to the ER to get it checked out and

Basically they did they ran their tests, you know, they took blood work this and that and then everything came back normal So was like, okay the hell and they tried to tell me that like it was from there's like a ruptured esophageate like a soft Esophagus from like yakking and you know, like we went to we went to a party school like I've done my fair share But like did you throw up that night? yeah. Okay. Okay, but but it wasn't like it's I've never put me on the organ recipient list Red Cross, you know, so like I knew something was a little like a little fishy. Yeah

And it just like persisted like it persisted persisted kept getting worse. Um, I think I went for like a run, like Memorial Day weekend, like down on the shore and my heart rate spiked to like 200, 204, which is like sleeping infant baby heart rate. And I'm not really, I'm not really fucking with that. like, something's definitely wrong. Um, so I like, and I checked the boxes. I like the healthcare stuff. I went to a cardiologist or summation. I think was up. This is like right after that. Yeah, right after that. So it was like, I don't know, just it kept getting worse and it wouldn't really get better. Okay.

Josh Felgoise (07:12.844)
I started having like panic attacks at work. I started like fidgeting. couldn't sit still again. Like every day would happen. I was just like, something is definitely wrong and I don't know what it is, but I'm going to do everything to figure it out because I have a life to live and I have dreams and aspirations. I have shit to do. So, the sooner I get this sorted out, the better. And that's kind of like what started me on my whole journey. So what was the next step? Like what, did you figure it out? And like, did you self diagnose it? Like, what did you do?

So I I'm, you know, I've worked in healthcare before, but I'm not, I'm not a psychiatrist, a psychiatrist, obviously. So I don't really have a lot of experience with like mental health. Um, but I, kind of assumed like if all of the medical things come back normal, then it's probably something in my brain. If something happened in there. Um, and the idea of like seeking out help or like talking to someone about it was really scary. Um, because you know, I mean, we all know that like mental health is pretty stigmatized. Um, it's hard just to like,

get over that hump and even just talk to someone about it. So, I dunno, I knew I needed to do something because nothing was working. I went into like really bad coping mechanisms. I was like drinking all the time. I started like vaping again. It was like, you know, just not treating myself how you should be treating your body. Right. And when it got to a point where like nothing else really worked, I figured that, you know, therapy and talking to people and potentially in the future medication could help. and it has been, and therapy has been great.

talk therapy has been like really working for me and even just like being more vulnerable with my friends about what I've been going through has been like the biggest thing just to know that like people that you trust are also there for you and that you're not a burden if you want to talk to them about it and just like, you know, putting that faith in others and realizing that even though they may love you and care for you, that they may also not be the best resource to help you and that you should seek out a professional who knows what they're talking about and someone who knows who to help you or how to help you in those, in those areas. So

Um, it's been, it's been a big learning curve, just figuring out how to deal with everything and how to do it in the right way. But yeah, I mean, it just gets to a point where like, you need to make a change and you need to do something. And, um, you know, it's just taking that first leap leap of faith kind of this. I'm so excited to have this conversation. I had a conversation with my friend yesterday, similar to ours, where he's dealing with something right now. And he was like, I went to therapy.

Josh Felgoise (09:30.966)
my sophomore year of college and most people don't like most guys don't. And he was like, I would love if you could talk about, like this came at actually the perfect time. He's like, want you to talk about on guys that like how beneficial therapy can be and how beneficial it is for me and would be for somebody else if they just did it and got rid of the idea that it's so like stigmatized and it's not something that guys can do or should do or do in general. and he's like,

He has such a better head on his shoulders because he's dealt with it and knows the tools and mechanisms now through therapy. Right. So one, I want to go back to your journey with it. Like how did you make that decision and like, where did you go to find a therapist? What, like, what are the actual things you did? Yeah. So, I mean, I always, it's kind of like random that I was watching, like the Ryan Reynolds, like hot ones the other night, but he's always been very vocal about his, you know, struggles with anxiety and going to therapy and how it's helped them. Yeah. I like found that out. just through like,

Random Google searches one night. Okay, and now it's like very you know present Yeah, definitely. Yeah, if you can grab him and you've already had the bar still CEO So, you know, it's like a one step up from that a little bit. Yeah, I'm sorry But yeah, he was like I mean as he was like seven or eight wings deep and he was like getting like the zoomies off of the hot sauce and shit you like talked about like you just like mentioned it in passing like a Ryan Reynolds type joke like mentioned his therapy and mentioned like

You know, he's gonna have like a panic attack over like all this like in a joking way But it's kind of like he feels open just to like joke about it there and I think that like that kind of threshold between like, know making it seem like you're brave and strong you're not going through anything and being like No, like it's okay to be vulnerable and it's okay to seek out help where you may need it It's something that a lot of people struggle with and something that I struggle with for sure. Yeah, so like taking that first leap It was just kind of like for me was like I had nowhere else to turn and I knew that something had to be done

In order to alleviate this stress, burden, this like constant, feeling of dread that I had. and essentially it was just kind of like the last place I could turn to to do that. So what did you do? Did you go online? Did you like, yeah. So I was chatting with one of my, friends from my like master's program at Lehigh and I'll send her about like my heart rate and everything. She's like an ICU physician. which we got like pretty close during the program, which was great. And she's such like a great friend to have, but she was basically like,

Josh Felgoise (11:52.852)
Maybe you should try therapy. and she gave me this great resource called bright side. it's all online. it covers like a lot of different insurances, but it's something that really, really helped me. it's really easy to like switch therapists, which low key switching therapist kind of feels like another breakup. was like really awkward. want to, I want to talk about that Yeah. Yeah. But, it took me a little bit to find the right person. the person who like gets me the most that I feel like gets me the most, but it's been great. I've been going, for a few months now and just like being able to air everything out and talk with somebody who

knows exactly how to help you and has potentially even been in the situation that you've been in. And talks people that have been through this or going through this. Yeah, like professional, like trained people. Right. They know their shit and they're great people. And you just kind of like develop that rapport with them. You feel like they're like a new kind of like best friend, you know, trusted person in your life. And it's been like a great shoulder to lean on, especially like every week when things can change and you can bring up new things and they'll help you go through that. It's like it's been a very good experience for me.

I also want to acknowledge that not everybody has the best experience with therapy and that's okay. Yeah. but at least for me, it's been something that's been really beneficial. I love that you're talking about this seriously. And I appreciate it so much because I think it really will help someone. And in my episode, like I talked about the things that I do throughout the day that like help me, but that can only get you so far, right? You got to that place, you worked through it, but then it didn't help. And then you talk to a friend and that helped for a second and then it didn't help enough. like, that's the next next step. And I.

feel like your self practices in those things can only get you so far. And this is the next step. Once you feel like there's like nothing else for you to do. so talk about that first or if you can, or if you want to like share what that first session was like and what you guys talked about, what that's like, what does the session in therapy look like? the first one is kind of, it's not like an intro, like we're not doing like college icebreakers. what's your favorite color major hometown, but it's like,

You know, you tell them what's been going on, like what your problem is or what you're experiencing and they kind of determine if they think that they can help you. So that's kind of like, they don't want to just like drag you on as like a patient that you don't think you can help. Right, right, right. So it's essentially like a, it's like a speed date with a therapist kind of. Okay. So that was pretty cool. That is cool. How long was it? I mean, normal session time, it's like 45 to an hour. Okay. Something like just like going over everything, pretty like an overarching, like what are the biggest things that you're worried about?

Josh Felgoise (14:18.51)
What do you want to get out of this? Like, did you are you open to different like, you know, medications or things like that? just having a little conversation. Did you have, mean, you and I can talk for hours and years. Yeah. Like are. love the yet. you have trouble opening up to like a random stranger about all this stuff in the beginning or like to talk about that experience? Yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm someone who has, I would say like the benefit of just being an open person in general. I'm not really like.

Well, it comes to mental health, it's different, like usually I'm a very like outspoken, you know, where my heart on my sleeve type of person. Yeah, absolutely. but in this situation, it was really weird to like, just tell a stranger that you just met five minutes ago, everything, the deepest darkest parts of your life right now. and it feels weird, but like, think just knowing that like they've gone through the training, they're literally there to help you. They're not just like, you're not just like spewing to them for no reason. And they're going to be like, okay, well that's fucking ridiculous. You should probably go home. Right. Right. Right.

Like you're you're presenting you're there for a reason they're there for a reason because they want to help you they want to see you improve. so just like knowing that I already had that kind of like security blanket, it made me feel a lot more comfortable just like opening up to somebody. and somebody who could give me like really good feedback about what they think I may be going through or like insight that I didn't know before I talked to them. So can you share what some of that insight was? If that's not like too personal, I don't know. It's like a HIPAA. don't even know. the rules are like, cut that question. don't know. I mean, I, I think it's, it's my

Situation. Yeah, I guess only if you want to show I mean like I mean the first session isn't it's not like a lot like they don't like or I guess maybe talk about like a I'll change that yeah, can you talk about what the developing sessions have looked like and like What how you've improved or what tools or tactics or tips they've given you throughout your time? Yeah, I mean I don't know if every like the therapy path is like this but essentially like when it comes to my situation it was it was very like

Start from scratch and do like a activity that was really really typical like difficult for you to do Whether that be like, don't you know, like, know, like, I just mumbled so fucking much. Well, I did that all the time You're actually talking really well, but I've worked on my enunciation sound really good. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you I was thinking I was overthinking my talking I was like, I'm the one with the fucking podcast sound really good. No, no, no I've I picked up some eloquence. Yeah, that's a big word. I'm like a thesaurus. so yeah, so it's it's very like

Josh Felgoise (16:42.178)
You want to start therapy with like a very clean slate and like a place of knowing that you can heal and not just like, okay, well I'm fucked up and I'm hoping this will help me. So I'm just going to kind of go through the motions. You have to like know in your like heart of hearts that like, this is what you want to do and you want to commit to the process. It's a very like trust the process kind of thing. You have to want to get better. Right. Yeah. And like at first I kind of like these people are hacks. Like, you know, like are they like, they're just spewing like the cliche is like, it takes time and like, you know, your life is a movie and all that shit. It's, but it's like,

You know, it's, different than that. Once you really get into the weeds and it's, it's a very like learning process type of thing. it's, it's really hard to like put into words. Just mean, like anxiety is hard to get right. Exactly. The whole thing is hard to put into words, but it's a lot of like building up maybe like building up like a Lego set or some shit. Then a couple fall off. You're like, okay, well how can I piece them back together? Maybe piece them back together differently. And then just keep going and keep going and going. You keep losing, you lose a few and then you build more and then you lose a few and you more.

That's a cool metaphor. It's a very like... Did you make that up yourself? I did actually, on the spot. Right now? Yeah. That was impressive. You like that? That was really cool. Yeah. So, how long have you been doing it for? Yeah, so at this point it's been around two months. It was like the first two or three weeks with the first person and then I switched to the new one. talk about that. Like, why did you want to switch? Right. And how did you do that? Right. So, many... A lot of people have...

good and bad experiences with therapy, but I think it one it depends on how you feel about the whole therapy process and if you want to heal and improve but it so much depends on who you're matched with or who you like, you know choose to therapy with. Yeah. And if you can't, if you can't connect to them and you can't relate to them or you feel like they can't relate to you, it's, you know, you're just, you're just blowing smoke up each other's like mouths. It's it's not, it's not going to go anywhere. If you don't think that there's someone that you can confide in and that they can help you. Yeah. So

Like my first dude was awesome. Like he was a great guy. But I just knew that like we couldn't connect on certain levels that I may have needed at the time. It's not like he did anything wrong. He said all the right things. knew exactly how to help me. But it's like just inherently we were just very different people and I could feel that. So it was daunting switching because then it's like, well, what if I switch to somebody worse or like, know, what if it gets worse?

Josh Felgoise (19:02.126)
In my case, it didn't fortunately, but I'm sure there are people out there who that has happened to, and then they have to keep kind of bouncing around. But, you know, it's just a, not really luck of the draw, but like if you, if you find a program or like a course or a company that can place you with people who like, you know, best fit your needs, then you'll, you'll find someone who gets you really quickly. It's like a relationship, right? Like if it works, it works. If it doesn't, it doesn't. And you know, in your gut, like if it works. Yeah, for sure.

Is bright side an app or a website? mean, yes, it's a website I think it's a website and an app but I've just been using like the web version Okay, but the interface is super easy They give you like a big survey at the start and give you like baseline scores for like anxiety depression I'm sure like other mental health, you know situation situations Yeah in my case is kind of anxiety and depression But they give you like a baseline score and then you have these like check-ins every few weeks where you see if your scores have like changed Yeah, you have like meetings with

A psychiatrist and a therapist to kind of like see if a student could be right. Yeah, but like only in like checkup ways not like a I need medication now because one can die one can diagnose. Yeah, it's of like checking up like if you if your score is on like a check-in survey like or skewed a little bit then the psychiatrist will reach out and be like, okay Well, I want to see you soon just like got it touch base and it's been it's been really great They've been very communicative really easy to reach great. yeah, it's been great I love to hear that so two months and back to where we were before two months in

What have you learned? How have you progressed? Like how do you feel now? Yeah, you mean like tools I've used or like just how do I feel in general? Let's start with the how you feel in general and then we'll go into the tools. Yeah, I think it definitely took a lot of like reframing my situation in my mind to be like, okay, this is something I can tackle as opposed to like this is crushing. I'll never get over any of this and life changing and it's you know, the world is over. But it's been a very like.

I don't want to say better with time because that's such a fucking cliche and like I mean, but it is true, you know, like as you get more used to situation in life, like things get better. Yeah. but it's just like you learn to not, weigh little things like my new things as if they were massive. Can you explain that? Yeah. So, I mean, at least like when my anxiety got really, really bad at the start, I could like not go through a door quick enough and it'd be like, my God, like I'm going to start hyperventilating. Like the world's going to explode and world war three. Okay.

Josh Felgoise (21:23.694)
And now it's just kind of like little things like that. Like it doesn't matter what it is. I'm sure it's different for everybody. Right. Um, little things can just set you off and it's just kind of getting used to like, I mean, I don't want to say like being comfortable with being uncomfortable, but like that's essentially what it, what it boils down to. It's just like, you have to know that what you're feeling anxious about is manageable and it's not something that'll crush you. It's not something that, you know, will ruin your life. It's something that you can manage and something you can deal with. Um, essentially, I mean, easier said than done, obviously. Right.

but that kind of reframing is what really helped me to not get rid of my anxiety. It's still there every day. Like I feel it all the time, but, live my life in a way where it's more manageable and that when I have time to deal with it, I can do it in a healthy and safe place in way. but that does come with a lot of like, you know, direct practice and like, have to be intentional about what you're doing in your free time and what you're doing in your, in your, the time, really. So can you go into that a little bit more? Like what are the things that you've done?

that have helped you now like realize that it's manageable. Cause you were in that position before where it's like if you walked through that area, you're like, you'd have, you'd hyperventilate and feel like the world was ending. And now you're at a place where you're not, which is amazing. And so I'm really, really happy to hear that. Me too, brother. Me too. mean, fuck. No, no, but seriously, like hearing a friend go through that is so terrible. well, nobody even knows too. It's like you're your best friend could be going through it and you have no idea. you have no idea because nobody talks about it. Like nobody talks about this shit.

And I don't know just hearing that like I mean when we had that conversation I really did not know you were experiencing that at all Yeah, and and how could I write like or how could anybody? And it made me so sad like that knowing that you're dealing with it, but I'm so happy I don't seem like the person to be going through that. No, yeah No, but neither would I or my great actor, but neither Well, everybody is kind of right like you can put on a smile for going out with friends or a dinner But when you come back home and you're back with yourself, right? Yeah, and you're back with

your own thoughts in your own house. It's like there it comes again. So that's the thing is that there's so much more alone time when you're an adult and you have a job. That's what I've noticed the first thing. First thing out of college. Yeah, because I stayed for those who don't know. I at Lehigh to do a masters for an extra year when all my friends moved away. So they were kind of veterans with the whole, you know, being an adult thing than I was. But as soon as I moved out, I said, wow, like I'm just sitting.

Josh Felgoise (23:46.912)
around granted it didn't get bad until like I moved into philly because that's just like when the most life change happened but Jesus bro there's a lot of time to just sit and think no compared to college when you're constantly distracted you got friends all around maybe there's some booze flying here and there but like in the real world you're you're quiet a lot of the time it's a lot of time on your own so much yeah I I remember I did a whole episode talking about like

He was dealing with like your alone time, right? Yeah, I'll spending time on your own in your 20s because there's so much of it and it's that episode was great I really appreciated that one. Thank you. I appreciate that No, it's but it's it's something that it took me a while to realize and there were there's so many times We're like I'll come home from work and it's like 530 and I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing tonight Or it's like you get home and you want to go to the gym and then you cook and it's already 10 p.m That's you that to fuck there goes my night that I gotta wake up at 7 and do it all again tomorrow. Exactly. Yeah

Um, no, that piece of it, I'm like, how can somebody date and do something they want to do and call their friends and call their family and cook and buy groceries and work out and do their work and sleep and not be a hermit. Yeah. And try and be social and like, how do you do all of that? And it now took me like what, two and a half years to feel like I'm good in that. they're figuring it out, figuring it out, but it's still, I'm still not figuring it out. Right. Like, I don't think anybody really is. to

What you said earlier about, um, like everybody had a little bit more experience with it than you did when you got to your place. Like everybody's still faking it till they make it. Like really, like we're all, nobody knows what they're doing. good to know. You should know that. all seem very put together these days. And I'm just like, well, what do I make for dinner? But like everybody's the same exact way. clothes do I wear tomorrow? Right. Right. No, but I mean that, like, I forget where we were going with this, but we ended up going a different path, which is another great path. But like the, the time in which you spend on your own.

is so much greater after college. You're not surrounded by people and that is where that anxiety can really click and that's where I had it. That's a big thing though is like you at least for me it's like I've always been like a I play off of like the people around me type of person. I'm a very like extroverted like I get my energy from having people around and I've never really learned how to be alone and to like learn what I like to do myself like who I am as a person. So I was I think that's probably like where a lot of my

Josh Felgoise (26:05.974)
issues have come from is just like, I don't know how to be alone. I don't know how to like figure out what I like. I don't know how to fill my time when people aren't around. so learning how to, how to do that and to like appreciate the time that I have by myself and to like appreciate, you know, the downtime and the little moments where I can just be who I am and like, not have anyone like eating me or, know, this and that. I, I just like find a lot of joy in that. not a ton because it's still like hard for me to adjust, but like,

More so now than I did before. And I that's been a big part of like where my journey has gone just through what I've been doing. Anyways, I didn't mean to go on that little tangent. can. No, no. Sorry about it. I mean, think that's it's an it's always a helpful conversation to have and for people to hear. like, I mean, imagine if you or I were in that position two years ago and we heard two people talking like this about like.

Hey, like this is not easy. Like none of us know what we're doing. it's like, you're a nut. Like I'm picking you in college. It's the best years of my life. It's going to be like this fucking forever. And then, and I'm sick. Right. And then you leave and it's like three months later and you're like, now I'm like one of 7 billion and I'm just a fucking guy. Right. to get by. you're, and you're trying to figure out your job. Exactly. Your career and your dating life and your real life and trying to sleep and like, it's impossible. It's daunting. It's very daunting.

And I don't know if that goes away or when it will go away. And then there's also the element I've talked about a bunch on here is like comparing yourself to other people like you were and another great episode on guys said on shut up, shut up. But comparing yourself to all of your friends and seeing what they're doing, if someone else is two years out, how are they doing that better than me? And like that person cooks dinner and I don't I'm ordering out every night. Like, no, it's I mean, but but back to what we were saying before, unless you have anything else to add to that. Good. You're good. Do you have anything else? No.

Okay. What tips or tactics have you learned to manage that anxiety in that alone time? Yeah. Right. So, some of them I kind of picked up in therapy, obviously like it'd be kind of brutal if I just walked away from therapy with like no way to manage, like no tools or anything. So they, know their shit. Yeah. so some is from there and some is just from like, what I found has made me more comfortable just in my daily life that they haven't told me. So, I mean, one big thing that I, that picked up from therapy and I think like,

Josh Felgoise (28:21.632)
is true of like any, you know, person with like a normal life is just being able to compartmentalize different things that we talked about this over, over the phone last time, but, just being able to compartmentalize, like, you know, this is the part of my brain that turns on when I have my job and this is the part of my brain that turns on when I'm cooking. And this is the part of my brain that turns on when I'm like studying for an exam. you know, or like going on a date or going out, like different parts of your thought, can be

kind of like hidden in the back of your mind and then brought to the front when you need to deal with them. So anxiety's case, it's really just like, if I'm at work and I can feel a panic attack coming on, I'm like, okay, well I'm not in the space to do this right now. cause I want to be able to perform well at my job. want to not be like, you know, taking any work away from my coworkers. and then once I get home and I have that kind of downtime and alone time, I can bring those kind of anxious feelings and anxious thoughts back to the forefront and really tackle them head on. Maybe like do some meditation, some deep, like deep breathing or

You know, just like face whatever issue I'm feeling in the moment where it's acceptable to feel that got it. So, that takes, takes a ton, a ton of practice and really intentional practice to like be able to do that. And I still am like, not great at it. Like I still get really anxious at work sometimes. And like, I have to just take a step out and like, take a walk. which I is like unfortunate. I hope that that gets better with time. I mean, who knows, you know, but it's something that's really like helped me, just like live in the moments that I'm in better and know that like, when I have time and like,

You know the energy to manage whatever I'm feeling on the inside then I can do that In a safe space isn't gonna compromise any other part of my life that I don't want it to compromise So that's a great answer You you said three things in there. You said meditation deep breathing and going for a walk Yeah Are those like actual things you do or like what are the real things that like when you get back to the place that you've you've compartmentalized the It's word, right? I'm it all fucking day Come come come come come

That's the parts that you compartmentalize. I think that's a first of all, great tip that like you can get to a place where it's like, okay, this is not the time for this. It'll get harder before it gets easier. That's all I'm going to say is like, I know one is an expert at first and that's, and that's okay. It takes a lot of intentional practice and intentional time to like put towards it to be like, okay, this is how I can just like rewire my brain to be like, this is how I deal with this and how to, can I do it effectively? Right. And then like,

Josh Felgoise (30:41.934)
I guess to that time that you save it for, it's like for in a bad way to say that, but like the time you save the anxiety for, what are the things you actually do when you get back to your apartment, you're on the couch or in your room, you're like, fuck, now it's all back. What are the things you do? Yeah. So there's a couple of them. So, I mean, the first one that I found really helps me is like exercising. mean, at least like in my case where like my anxiety, I would imagine stem stream was kind of like a confidence thing. and like, you know, a lot of people are comfortable in their own skin, perfectly fine. I haven't really been that way for like a little bit. Um, so like when I'm

being active when I'm working out, um, I kind of like take away that little ounce of like, um, you know, lack of self-efficacy, like self-confidence, whatever, whatever you want to call it. Um, and just kind of like, No, that point of my anxiety to a point where I'm like, okay, so that's the first one I've nipped in the bud and it feels good. Yeah. So I've been going to the gym. completely agree with that. the way, has been like, even like those like endorphins, like runners high, like so, so real. I was super, I was actually super anxious this morning and then I went.

And did it worked out and I, you had decided, did you go to the gym? And I feel so much better after it, like genuinely. So the thing is that it's also like two sides of the coin because I could be like on the treadmill and I'll like do like a, I don't know, 10 minute run, 12 through 30, whatever. And I'll just like, that's a perfect time to just sit and think because I'm, you know, I'm just looking at a wall, sometimes a mirror, depending on what treadmill I get in my gym and my building. Um, but like, you know, the music just kind of goes away that I'm listening to and it's just my thoughts then.

So like it depends on the day. good way or a bad way? In a bad way. Okay, okay, okay. I wish I was thinking of like, you know, the Lego movie and like, you know, Five Seconds of Summer and like happy shit. But a lot of the time it's like that's also like, while it can be really beneficial for me to like work out and be active, like sometimes it can go to that like darker, this is really great alone time, no one's around. If there are people around, I'm like, are they looking, like, you know, it's like.

it becomes a very hyper aware, anxious time. Sometimes it's gotten better, obviously, but it's like, you know, in, places where you can feel perfectly comfortable, like you can also feel that anxiety come back. So it's like, agree with you. I mean, especially on like, if you're going for like a walk or something that it can all come out then I've found that when I'm like weightlifting, is when it completely goes away for me. Not that I'm like massive or anything, but like, no, but that's like the time in which like,

Josh Felgoise (33:01.216)
I have to focus on something else and I can't focus on my mindset or mentality. so I think there's also different things you can do that. Well, yeah. So, I mean, like kind of segueing off of that, it's like when that does happen to me, like while I'm in the gym or just even like while I'm out and about, I've noticed at least for myself that like breathing is a big part of like, when I get really anxious, I start to breathe a little faster. I wouldn't call it like hyperventilating, but I definitely like notice like my breaths go up, my heart rate increases. so really just like in that moment, I just take like, I don't know.

10, 15, 20 seconds, just really focused on like deep, deep breathing. And it has to be really intentional and you like, it'll be hard at first to just be like, well, how do I not think during this? But it's just, your, your mind just kind of goes numb. At least when I do it now, I'll just, I'll take like three, four deep breaths. I'll like check my heart rate to see if it's going back down. And sometimes it doesn't go back down, but I know that like after a while, if I keep breathing like this, if I keep just like noticing how my body is and like looking at myself kind of like externally,

That I'm gonna start to calm myself down and obviously that doesn't work for everyone. Was this a therapy thing or was this? No, this is a me thing I just know it's like I think I was doing like a run one day and I was just kind of like Wow My heart rate is like spiking kind of similar to like when I was running like Memorial Day weekend at the beach that way. Yeah. So I was like, let me let me try some shit real quick. I just started like slowing my breasts down taking like super super deep breaths

And just like my heart rate went pretty normal then. So I was just like, wow, like maybe breathing has been the fucking answer this whole time. Right. I mean, you know, breathing it like it, or it's just like a piece of the puzzle. You know, you never know. Do you do like holding at the top or like what, what are the, don't know. Usually I'll count like how many steps I take between a breath. So like if I'm going like, I don't know, two or three steps for each breath, then I'm just going to be like, okay, maybe I'll try five or six and I'll take like a really deep breath, hold it for a couple of seconds, exhale. And then it'll be another six steps and I'll, you know, hold for a second and then I'll breathe in. it's like, that's a, yeah, that's a good answer. Thank you.

Yeah, I mean, I've always done that. Like when I was like rowing in high school, I would count my steps between breaths. I'd be like, okay, I'm going to keep my breath consistent and like three step breaths or whatever the fuck. was like kind of a nerd with like rowing. Like it just looked like weird shit, like working out. Um, but now it's become very like, okay, this is how I can track if my breathing is getting faster and like how it's affecting my heart rate and how it's affecting my mind. It's like, it becomes this snowball thing if you don't know how to control it. And then it's like, well, is my heart rate causing my anxiety or is my anxiety causing my heart rate to increase? It's like, you know, no, you never really know.

Josh Felgoise (35:19.63)
doing what you can to mitigate any internal factors, whether it be like, I don't know, organs or like just how you're like feeling in the moment. If you're sweating a lot, like, um, learning how to like control those as much as you can. Yeah. So that you can kind of isolate how you're feeling in your mind and not have it be affected by anything external. Okay. Cool. Yeah. Um, I guess what would your number one tip be for somebody who is experiencing anxiety and doesn't know what to do?

It's so tricky. I think it's just- Obviously it's very different for everyone. It's not a one size fits solution. I think that like, if you have people around you who are close to you, don't convince yourself that you'd be a burden talking to them. That was probably the biggest thing for me. Lean on them if you can. And if that doesn't work, then there's professional resources you can turn to if you need. just like having people around you who know what you're going through.

It just makes your life so much easier to manage because you don't have to hide things from them You don't have to you don't act like you're yeah, the super super strong super put-together person when you're not and and if you if you you know bottle that up inside it's it's like the cliche that people always talk about it's all gonna come out eventually and like a worse way than you wanted to so leaning on the people around you And for all you normal people out there tell people you care about that you are there for them because if they don't know that already then they should Sorry, I just preached a little bit. I love that. No, I mean again. I mean to lash out at all you guys listening

Yeah, I mean it's just like Everybody should have each other's backs, especially when it comes to mental health Yeah, you don't know what someone's going through if they don't have the courage to tell you That's probably the biggest boundary to them feeling like they can lean on you. So Just make yourself available for people that you care about and then eventually if they're going through anything They'll tell you what something a friend could do. That's great advice. First of all, should thank you before I ask you question

What's something somebody could do who's like a friend that maybe thinks somebody is going through something and doesn't really know how to go about giving them advice or just being like, hey, I'm here for you. Like, I don't, I don't know what you're going through. You know what I mean? Like what's something that that friend could do? Yeah. I mean, it doesn't have to be like a super like, Hey, like, are you anxious or like, Hey, are you depressed? You know, don't do that. Whoever does something, don't, don't fucking do that. But just like, I don't know, checking it. If you haven't talked to someone in a while, just say like, how's life going? Like, I haven't seen you in a while. Sorry.

Josh Felgoise (37:46.702)
Low-key burp for like the last no no no it's it's back in okay. Um, sorry to everyone You have one just let it rip and I'll edit it out. cash. Yeah, no, it's not like that. Oh, nevermind. Um, whoa, that'll edit it in. Um, was I saying? So I asked you I can ask it again in a better way. Sure sure.

What would you have wanted a friend to have said to you? Yeah without knowing what you're going through or like what could a friend have done that would have helped Yeah, so I mean, okay. I'll put it to me. What could I have done that would have helped? You guys have been perfect you can answer it different. It's you know, it's it's hard like Nobody's like to blame like if somebody doesn't reach out to you about how they're feeling. It's not on them It's not on you right just on the situation, you know, it's like it's factors that are external to you

Or them it's just kind of like how mental health is it feels very? Debilitating like you know you feel this like overwhelming sense of dread like you just can't bring yourself to do anything about it sometimes I Think like I don't know if you haven't talked to someone in a while Even whether they're going through mental health or not, you know, just like reach out to them Just just check in see how life's going. Yeah I don't know. Just just make yourself available in the best way that you can and like really maximize

the things that you're saying to them. Like you don't have to have like a full blown conversation like an hour long FaceTime every week, know, just like, I don't know, just do little things to check in with them and just see how they're doing. This is a hard, it's a hard thing to do, you know, it's hard to keep in touch with people. least that's something I've struggled with for sure this year. That's another addition to the things you have to do after college. You to keep in touch with people. I don't know. Yeah. It's just like making yourself available.

Even if you don't talk all the time just having them know that you're someone that they can lean on Yeah, and that you'd be able to pick right back off for you right back up where you left off Yeah, when you you know Stopped communicating as regularly as you were Absolutely, Is there anything I missed that would that we would like we talked about before maybe or talk about meds and like yeah Yeah, let's do it. I feel like yeah, what what would you want to share? What can I ask?

Josh Felgoise (40:01.536)
Are you at a place in your therapy journey that they recommended you take a medication or something? what's your situation with that? Yeah, well guess I think it's important to talk about medication first and foremost because it is very stigmatized. Nobody really knows. I mean, just a personal anecdote. I was talking to one of my good buddies from home the other day and I had no idea that he was struggling with anxiety as well. He's been taking medication for years and years and years.

And it's just become like normal to him. mean, like he never really told any of us that, um, because it just become like how he lives his life. And I thought there was something kind of beautiful in that and just like, I don't know, like nobody needs to like, I mean, if you're, if you're close with somebody, you can like, you know, divulge information to them that you're like, have, you're struggling with this is what you're doing to, uh, maintain kind of how you're feeling. Um, but something I want to make really clear is that like medication is very stigmatized, um, alongside mental health, obviously.

And therapy. And personally, I haven't gotten to a place yet where medication is needed. and I'm, thankful for that. but I also acknowledge that like, you know, come a day or two days or weeks or years or months, like I could need them. And that's like something that I've kind of rationalized. and kind of something that I like alluded to when we were chatting on the phone that one time was kind of like, I've not justified or like rationalized medication, but I've kind of like reframed how I think about it in that it's not like

You're so broken that you need this like magical pill to like, you know fix you it's really just like You have lost parts of yourself External to your own control like out of your own control, right? and medication is a way to retrieve those parts of yourself and be able to live your life normally again And I think that that's just how i've been thinking about it lately, which I think is really cool That's an incredibly profound way to put that. Thank you. Yeah, i've been i've been thinking a lot about this lately Yeah, that was you can tell beautifully said yeah. but it's just like

You shouldn't feel like, you know, world is crashing, you know, I've said it before, but it's just like, there are tools that can get you back to where you want yourself to be. And if you can, you know, it doesn't, it doesn't matter like what it is, but it's really just like, do the things that can make you yourself again. Yeah. And whatever that is, has no reason to be stigmatized. There's no reason to be like, look down on, because it's, it's who you are and it's a part of you that you've lost.

Josh Felgoise (42:28.108)
And it's part that you want to get back. So that was so well said. Like I have nothing to add to that. I mean, I think what you said about like the last thing you just said about like doing do what you can to get yourself back if you have lost yourself or you can't find a piece of you or like you just, you just kind of feel like you're wandering or you're feeling that sense of dread that you talked about. why stay there and why, like, why not do the things that can help you?

Don't feel ashamed to do things that can make you feel better. You should never feel ashamed to do that. Yeah, and I think you're an amazing example of that and I think will be really helpful to a couple, I hope. I hope so, yeah, I hope so. I really do believe that. This is, in this conversation, I was like, this is one of the episodes that I'm grateful that you came on to do Oh, thanks for having me. I've heard I have a face for podcasts too, so. And the camera died? I the camera died.

Everyone can listen to our sweet, sweet voices for the next however long. no, but where was that? was I saying? thanks for coming on profound conversation. It was profound. It was quite, like in the beginning, when I, when I thought about doing this podcast, I was like, there's a couple of topics that I will get into this year that I think are like, we'll be really helpful for people and would have been really helpful for me at in college before college. even just hearing two people.

your age, my age, like are in our demographic talking about and sharing really honestly and openly therapy being one of them and mental health, obviously, and hearing it from you and hearing your perspective on it and that you're getting better and working through your experience is great to hear and I'm really grateful you shared all this. Yeah, of course. I'm glad like anyone that I can help with like what I've like my experience or what like my story would I've been through. I'm not that the story's over. Like I'm some sage who knows everything about mental health. Right.

You know, if it can help one person, then that's all I need. So thank you so much for having me on. Thank you for coming really fun. I'm so happy with you. I really am. Anything else that I feel like that's... No, I mean... I forgot about where that was. Yeah, that was great. Okay. I hope everyone has a great rest of their week because this will be out on Tuesday. Not Tuesday, next Tuesday. Next Tuesday. All right, sweet. Thank you for doing this. Truly. That was really good. That was fun. Was that good?

Josh Felgoise (44:50.222)
It gets sweaty in here. don't know if I said the wrong thing or mumbled a lot. No, you sounded... That is the episode for today. I really hope you liked it and I hope it helps you and inspires you to share more of your own experiences with people in your life and do the things to put yourself back together and put the pieces of yourself back together again. Thank you so much for listening. If you liked this episode, really hope you did. Please like, subscribe, give this podcast five stars. It's one, two, three, four, five.

If you any questions, you want to talk about anything that should be talked about, send it to my email josh at guyset.com j-o-s-h at g-u-i-s-e-t dot com or you can reach out to me at my dms at the guyset t-h-e-g-u-i-s-a-t across all social medias. I've also made two groups that you can talk to other guys our age both on Facebook and on Reddit. also a discord channel. I don't really understand how discord works yet, but I'm working on it and you can talk to other guys through there and get advice and real honest perspective from other guys in our age range and our age group.

If there's any resources that Gabe talked about, they are below in the show notes. You can find them all right there. Thank you so much for listening and I will see you guys next Tuesday. See you guys.