Leaving Your First Job with Luca Milletti

Josh Felgoise (00:00.204)

Welcome to Guy's Set, a guy's guide to what should be talked about. I'm Josh, I'm 24 years old, and I'm here to find all the tips, advice, and recommendations for everything you're wondering about. Let's get into it.

Josh Felgoise (00:17.944)

Hi guys, welcome back to guyset, a guy's guide to what should be talked about. For anyone that is considering leaving their job in the process of searching for a new job in the interview process or anywhere in between all of that, this episode is for you. This week, my friend Luca Maletti is here to talk about leaving his first job after two and a half years and the process of finding a new one. You will hear about why he decided to leave his first job, how long the process took to find a new one,

how many interviews he went through, how many rejections he faced and how he dealt with that rejection and his advice for you on rejection, his conversation he had with his boss, how he told his coworkers he was leaving and so much more. Having another guy's perspective on this job transition period who is in a completely different industry than me brings a totally new light to this topic and I'm so excited to have a different guy's perspective on this exact topic that I talked about a little while ago when I quit my job and I started a new one as well.

In this episode, Luca and I share actionable things you can do in your own job search, where and how to start advice for applications, interviews, cover letters, standing up for yourself in the workplace, the difference between being confident in your work and being self-absorbed, how he's feeling about starting his new job. And we both talk about our imposter syndromes that we face as well. We also hear his perspective on living on his own for the first time in his twenties and living on his own after living with two roommates for the past two years.

This conversation is a really great one. I'm so happy you decided to listen to this one. And if you are in that job search somewhere in the middle, somewhere in between, I wish you the best of luck. And I think you will find a lot of great things in here that will help you in this process. Without further ado, please welcome Luca Maledi to Geisse.

Josh Felgoise (02:08.215)

So some people on, okay, let me start it again. No pressure. Thank you. So some people post on LinkedIn that they are starting a new job and others come on a podcast to talk about it. I did it myself, I came onto my podcast in episode 26 about a year ago, said I quit my job before I told, I told a lot of my friends at that point, but we have another person that I have found to come and do that too and I'm really excited to have another guy's perspective in.

his 20s talk about leaving his first job and transitioning to his second job and what that's like and all the different facets of that transition period. So welcome to guys at Luca. Hey buddy. Nice to see you. How you doing. Super excited to be on. So tell everybody how we know each other and then we'll get into it. Yeah. So I'm originally from San Francisco. I'm talking about yourself too. Originally from San Francisco area decided that

After high school, I wanted to do something that was kind of out of the realm of my comfort zone from like a living perspective. And I thought that East Coast was a good starting point. And then we both ended up at Lehigh University in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. So pretty in the middle of nowhere. But yeah, we went to school together, same paternity. Have lived for about five blocks from each other for over two and a half years now, which is kind of crazy to say. But yeah.

And you're now living on your own. I am for the first time. Yeah. For about six months now. How's that been? Definitely different. Um, were with two roommates, two roommates. was with two roommates before. It was definitely different from the perspective of coming from a super social house and super social group of people that we went to school with. And then coming to New York and always being around the same people.

Everyone's still kind of lived in the same for those that don't know we live in the East Village area. And then moving in alone, it's like you have to be really preemptive about moving in alone and making sure you're making plans. And I think that was probably the biggest change for me. But I also think I'm more of a clean person and not having to worry. No disrespect to my old roommates, but like not have to worry about cleaning up after other people is like been another thing that's just a weight off your shoulders. But.

Josh Felgoise (04:28.18)

Overall, it's just a lot different. Like you have to be willing to go out of your way. mean, I feel like you have no problems because you're the most social person I've ever met. But I feel like myself personally, I can find fall into the habit of like just being at home and being by myself and like, I'll watch a movie tonight instead of coming here and doing a podcast. So I actually didn't even think to talk about this. I was only going to talk about your job, like leaving your first and transition to the second. But I think it's actually a important thing to talk about. And I've only really talked about

from my perspective, live with two other roommates, everybody who listens to this knows. And if you don't know how you do, but you lived with two people before. like, what is your kind of biggest piece of advice outside of being preemptive about making plans, which is a really important thing to think about. What would be like another big tip or piece of advice you'd give to somebody who is either living on their own for the first time, maybe not even in that transition, but living on their own for the first time or now living on their own.

clean clears your mental space a lot more than you would assume. I also, that's something for me, I work a lot, kind of diving into the job a little bit. I work a lot from home, like more often than not, probably four to five days a week, depending on the week. and I think the biggest thing for me was if my bed is not made and like the dishes are not put away, I feel like I'm just sitting doing work kind of like a hermit. So being able to be clean made the whole.

Especially now when it's like dark out. I feel like it's different when it's light out and stuff but more often than not like being Clean and having that space be clean was the biggest thing to make sure my head was clear That's a great piece of advice I feel the same way like if I'm not if I'm working from home and my bed's not made and I'm just like I don't know you kind of like you're sitting in like shit Yeah, yeah, I know exactly that feeling yeah and then if you're if you don't get outside in the morning you take like morning calls and you're not

Like you're just kind of in it and you forget what it's like outside, especially on your own. If you haven't been outside in a while and you don't do things in the morning. Yeah. I think the other thing, and I think you actually mentioned this on your podcast when you were talking about like morning routine, the one on right now, the same one. Yeah. Yeah. like going, getting outside in the morning, like in terms of like sleep schedule, making sure you get like actuals. mean, obviously right now when it's terrible out, you can't always do that, but like making sure you get up and out of.

Josh Felgoise (06:50.88)

If you do work from home, your living situation in the morning, very important as well. It's huge. I think like, especially when you're on your own, because in the morning, once in a while I'll talk to my two roommates if we're like leaving at the same time and I'll have that like human interaction as funny as that sounds. But if you're on your own, like you, you don't have an antivir working from home, like you don't really have that interaction outside of texting or calling somebody. So getting outside and putting yourself into like a, the outside world really does bring back perspective.

Yeah. Do you have anything else to say about what it's been like or what you've learned living on your own outside of those couple of things? Those are incredibly helpful. I I honestly like those two things have been the biggest for me. Like definitely it's it's it's also like a sleep thing. Like I feel again, if you sit in your apartment all day and you don't do anything, falling asleep in the same place that you woke up is so much more difficult. Like so what I mean by that is if I wake up

and I don't go to the gym and I wake up at 730 in the morning to start working at eight or 830 and then I try and fall asleep and I have not left the same 40 foot space all day. It makes it so much harder to fall asleep. That makes sense. You saw my eyes. was like, yeah, yeah, no, but that does make a lot of sense. Yeah. I I think like I've talked a lot about living on your own in your twenties and I also want to ask you about that before we get into the other, the job stuff, but

What would you say to somebody like I don't know who may not be someone who makes a lot of plans like you said you're kind of in that zone a little bit sometimes and I don't mean that offensively but like No, but like like what would you say to somebody who doesn't make a lot of plans or like I don't know doesn't go on like a lot of dates and is also living on their own like I Called our friend Adam a while ago and talked about like living on your own for the first time or living in a new city for the first time and I think it's an important topic for guys to talk about because we don't

So what would you, I don't know, to that person? Get a hobby. Like, so that's another thing that I feel, especially with the work that I was doing, felt like it was too much of an issue at the time that I wish I had done in the first two and a half years that I lived here. But also something that I think I'm going to try to do going forward is either something from college that you're really passionate about, something you did in high school, like a sport, joining an intramural league. It's one thing that will

Josh Felgoise (09:15.48)

hold you accountable, like I have to go to this game or I paid, I mean, another example, I want to learn how to play guitar. Like I pay, I paid money for this guitar. I either am committed to it, classes at NYU or I'm, have like an online, schedule that I'm taking, like making yourself a scheduled habit is something that I think can improve the ability to be social outside of.

Especially when you're living alone. That's a I think that's a great piece of advice like Kind of giving yourself an obligation or like investing in yourself forcing yourself Yeah, no, but yeah But like a lot of times like when we don't force us off to do something or like when we don't invest in ourself to do something or pay To you know what I mean? Like we don't and it's it's it's I was listening to a podcast today It's by this woman named Mel Robbins who I talked about here before and she talks about like in the morning when you wake up like

Nobody wants to wake up. You have to force yourself to do it. And she started this thing called the five, four, three, two, one rule. Like if you say in your head five, four, three, two, one and go, you'll go. But you have to force yourself into a lot of these things, especially when you're on your own and on your own for the first time. Like you can very easily get caught up in the idea of like, I'll do it later. Or like, I don't know. Like it's, it may not. I'll do it next week. You know? So forcing yourself to go out and go join a hobby or

Do a hobby. Yeah, not to call out one of our friends, but I think one thing that a lot of people struggling struggle with, especially, you know, like New Year's resolutions and stuff. Maybe skip the name. Okay. No name would be friend X who I think has a schedule for. thought you meant like X friend. was like, are you not friends with this person? No, no, no. Okay. Yeah. Person who has a gym they joined that has a scheduled workout time with a group of people. So they hold you accountable for.

If you don't have a workout partner and you want to start going to the gym rather than going, Oh, I'm going to start waking up in the morning being like, I have to wake up to go to this class that I paid for with a group of people that will hold me accountable. Something like that. I didn't know what you're to say. So I was like, you could have totally said Luke. Um, I, and he would, he would be so proud of that. Um, yeah. I mean, I think that is true. Like you have to have, if you don't have your, an accountability buddy, like you have to hold yourself accountable. And that's a really hard thing to do.

Josh Felgoise (11:35.618)

This is actually gonna play a little bit into something I think I wanna talk about later on when I talk about moving jobs. I'll pause there for second and when we get there I'll call back to this moment. Okay, great. So let's get into the job stuff. That's a great transition. Thanks, Luca. Yeah, thanks for talking about that. I didn't think we were going to and I was like, it's a good thing for guys to be talking about. So the inception for this episode started when we were talking about...

At New Year's you told me you got a new job, which is amazing. I'm very proud of you. I'm very excited. And this has been a process that's been ongoing for a while now. Like you've just been in the interview process and like the, want to switch jobs for a little while. So how long have you been in your first job and tell us a little bit about like what you've been doing and why you started to feel that way. Yeah. So I've been working in a data analytics consulting job for

just about two and a half years. So August of 2022 is when I started. after college. Right after college. Obviously. then I, so I studied computer engineering in school. So I had kind of a technical background. And one thing that I was looking forward, going into the professional world was something that kind of mixed a technical and non-technical role. And I thought that in analytics consulting, you kind of have that background of doing stuff with more technical work, a lot of coding involved.

but also have the opportunity to build soft skills, soft skills, like presentation skills, communication skills, um, knowing how to kind of bite your tongue and say like the client is always right, which is, know, at the end of the day, consulting is you're working for someone and they're paying you directly. It's not like a lot of other internal roles where you kind of can maybe push your opinion or push back a little bit more at the end of the day, the client wants it done a certain way. Um, and I mean, I say that in a negative way, but at the end of the day,

I feel like I can naturally be a little bit argumentative as a person. I feel like the ability and I feel like the ability in a professional experience to, like I said, bite your tongue is something that has bled into my like real world life outside of work. And that's something that I think was really beneficial. yeah, two and a half years, a big consulting firm working in like a semi-technical role. Okay, got it. And when?

Josh Felgoise (13:59.864)

Did you kind of feel like this job was no longer like serving you or furthering you in the career you want to be in? Maybe about a year, year and a half in. I honestly, like I would say compared to a lot of the experiences with people that start doubting how much they're enjoying their job, a lot of people, especially in our age will say, look, I really enjoyed the people I worked with, but I didn't love what I was doing. I felt

So I mean, to add onto that, my analytics experience was specifically with in anti-money laundering, which is like a very niche kind of cool, like people think anti-money laundering. All these cool, was like, didn't know that. Financial crimes, anti-money laundering, all of that stuff. So I've been working in that niche for a long time and it's kind of a pigeonhole experience. again, like I found it really cool when I was doing it, but for me, it was never a.

I really didn't love what I was doing. I wouldn't say I loved it, but I definitely didn't dislike it. It was more from a me, like a progression perspective. Like I wanted, I mean, it sounds conceited, but like I wanted to start making more money. I wanted to develop more professional experiences that I was, I didn't think I was getting in a consulting firm. but I mean, at the end of the day, at the same time, like you're working to make money, like there's no reason for it. So I felt like it was an in the nature of, again, a big consulting firm, it's up or out.

meaning like you either get promoted or you leave. And I think that was another thing, my promotion timeline, especially with like the job market and the economy wasn't doing well. The promotion timeline for someone in an earlier position was taking an extra six months to a year, which I think for me was, it dissuaded me from continuing on down the line, staying in that career path.

I mean, first of all, I don't think it can sounds conceited whatsoever, like wanting to make more money in a role. Right. When I did my I listened back to my episode today for the first time since I posted it last December. So over a year ago now. And at one point I said like and like they didn't pay me. I didn't get a raise like when I thought I deserved one. I like I went back in and I like edited it in by being like I hope that doesn't sound like kids. I said the same thing. And I was like, no, that doesn't at all. that's where you your work for a reason, a job.

Josh Felgoise (16:20.192)

has a reason and you want to make money from it. When you're no longer progressing in the role and maybe other people are or you see that other people are, whether it's your friends, it's really hard not to compare, not friends, mean other coworkers, other people in the company, it's hard not to compare when you see other people up or out. So yeah, was there a moment in working there where, I don't know, you either didn't get the raise you thought you deserved or like,

something like that? I would say there were three moments. Okay. So the first moment is after I really started getting a hold of my job. I had conversations about people that I worked with. I had started on a new project within the work that I was doing with a new group of people. And it didn't really feel like I was learning as much as I wanted to be learning, which is a big thing. And that was about a year and a half in.

the promotion timeline was about a little bit less than two years. And that first promotion was supposed to be like early promotion for the role that I was in. So I wasn't expecting it, but it was like, mean, again, this is gonna sound conceited. I felt like I was performing at the level that would have allowed me to get promoted. That's not conceited. That feels like more of a conceited. No, I mean, it's knowing what you're worth and knowing what you're presenting and providing to a company. So I don't think it does at all. And then I think the final straw

for me, and kind of like diving really into the weeds of it. I just really didn't, I got to the point maybe a little bit more than two years in where I was just like, I'm working really long hours. I'm not really enjoying the work as much as, as I did previously. I'm not going into the office anymore because like, if I go into the office, I'm not hanging out with the people I want to hang out with. I'm just sitting down and working on calls all day.

it didn't, felt like I was being pigeonholed and stuck in the same group of projects that I was working on the same type of work that I was working on. And that for me, and I went home and I, again, from, I'm from San Francisco. like, don't get to talk face to face to my parents about things like in person as much as I usually do. So when I did finally, and like, I talked with my brother, their responses were like, Hey, maybe like take a look somewhere else. Yeah. and that kind of started me down a path.

Josh Felgoise (18:46.132)

And I mean, since I started interviewing, maybe almost a year ago, I think I've probably done well over 20 interviews. Wow. If not more than that, like honestly, probably more than that. Yeah. Before we get into the interviews, I want to break down a lot of what you just said, because it sounds and felt a lot like what I was going through when I left my first job. One being like feeling pigeonholed and or feeling stuck.

and not progressing or learning. think that you, I think you said in the first part, and I'm going to try and break down all of those that, you weren't learning as much as you were at one point or wanted to be about a year and a half in. I think that's probably, I think a lot of what you just said is probably common, a common feeling for a lot of guys or people listening right now feeling pigeonholed or feeling stuck. Yeah, go ahead. had something. Yeah. So the one thing that I will say about that is.

Especially within consulting, like the term pigeonhole can be very misleading. Okay. Because consulting in itself, the point of it is to be trying new different things all the time. Got it. And it's interesting because when I talked to my dad about it, he basically asked me like, have you been putting effort into trying other things in your practice? And my initial answer was no.

and I'm not going to reflect on that time period, the last two years or so, and say that I couldn't have done things differently, but I think that ultimately the things that I wanted to gain were technical, technical skills, not like as much communication, soft skills, industry knowledge. Like I think I could have learned those things, but I felt stuck from a technical perspective. Yeah. I mean, I mean, that makes sense. I think when I'm talking about, when I'm talking about pigeonhole in my job, like it's a little.

different because I felt stuck in and this is about you by the way I'm not I'm not trying to like make this about me like everything else but this like when I say pigeonholed I mean like I felt like I couldn't get out from where I was and there were so many other places I wanted to learn and so many other skills I wanted to develop and so many other facets of my career that I thought I could really get into but I couldn't there. you think you have that at your new job more than you would have liked at your old job? 100 percent.

Josh Felgoise (21:11.918)

It's good. It's yeah. And I haven't really talked about that a lot on here yet. Well, at some point, but it took making the leap to get there. Like if I had stayed there and I felt very nervous to leave, was like, I don't, I have it pretty good right now. I wouldn't have had all of that. So there was a third thing you said, the raise or something promotion. progression progression. Yeah. Progression was a big thing. So that's the other thing that's like interesting about especially larger consulting firms.

If you're in, let's call it like a level of employee. like entry level, mid level, senior level, you make the same as everyone else in your level. Okay. There is no deviation except for like, as an example, you have a master's degree or an MBA. so the real only way to make more money is to get promoted. There's no incentive based, bumps that you can make. And this is across all of consulting.

Not all, not all, but like generally larger firms. That's the way that it's structured. You make the same as everyone else that's in like your level. Okay. So that was another thing. Yeah. Along with the progression of owning Warwork, it was a dollar amount that was placed on you because you were at that level. Got it. Okay. That makes sense. I was going to ask for the dollar amount. From, I mean, I'm fine saying, I don't really care. Fuck it. Let's go. So

I think entry, entry level, like when you first started, it was like mid eighties. Okay. Which is, which by the way, it makes sense for an entry level job in New York, especially like for context, technical second year. was so I'm to say like total compensation versus base salary. Can you do both? Yeah. So, I mean, it also depends year by year, right? I mean, that's the same with every firm. Every company, like you'll make more if the company's doing well, which again, economy bonuses, bonuses. So

I would say first year was like new breakdown for somebody who doesn't know base versus overall, what that means. there are like three to four different types of compensation you can make at any company, especially like in, so the, the role that I was in, you really only had two different types of compensation. was your base salary, which is usually either semi-monthly, or I guess bi-weekly bi-weekly, bi-weekly. I they mean the same thing. they? Sure. More or less either way.

Josh Felgoise (23:35.564)

You get paid out your base salary bi-weekly. then on top of that, some people have it quarterly. Some people have it yearly. You'll get paid a bonus. There's also, like say if you're in a sales oriented role, you can make like sales commission, which is another version of a bonus, but that'll also get paid out monthly or bi-weekly. And then there's like stock units. That's a form of a lot of people think of that as a form of a bonus.

But some people I've seen, especially it's more common in tech companies where you're make three to four of those categories. You'll make a base salary, a bonus, and you'll receive stock. breakdown. back to the compensation for me started somewhere around 80 to 90, I think overall, maybe 95 on the top end. Second year, you would make a little over six figures, like low six figures.

Meaning like 105, 105 ish around there. then depending promotion, depending on promotion or non promotion, you would get like a small bump if you weren't promoted, but you stayed in the, the role and you would make a significant bump if you were promoted to the next role. Got it. Um, so small bump for would be probably like two to three K on the base. Okay. Bonus is based on your.

performance, salary. salary. Okay. Okay. So like you'll make five to 10 % of your base salary. Okay. and then obviously like performance is involved in that, but it more or less like you will be making a percentage of your base salary, right? The bump to the next salary, like the promotion salary would have been about 40%. So like low one thirties to one fifties, like in that range. So significant enough where, yeah. So that, that was the

other consideration. Like if you don't get promoted, you're losing out on potentially 40 to 50 K year, which is really not insignificant amount of money. Right. It's very significant. It's huge. And when I was in the episode I was listening to, was like, I was being so nice to the company and I was like, well, like they said that they don't really do like pay bumps or bonuses for like a two year period. And like that is it's how it is. Like, no, that's fucking bullshit. Like if you're if you're working and you're like proving yourself and you're going above and beyond, like you should

Josh Felgoise (25:53.41)

be benefited for that. So thank you for breaking that down. I appreciate you sharing it. I think everybody's always interested in the numbers and actually what we're talking. But everyone's always so vague and it's like, well, it should have been like, you know what mean? But I think that's helpful. So what was the final catalyst for you to, I guess you kind of talked about this, but what was the final catalyst for you to be like, all right, I'm searching and I'm not gonna stay here anymore and I'm really gonna look because it.

Everybody talks about leaving. I mean, I've heard so many people be like, I'm going to leave. I'm going to look, I'm going to leave. I'm going look when you actually do it you like put your foot down. Like, yeah, I that, that for me happened like a while ago. Like, okay. I'm going to say it in the point of view that I interviewed. Like I would say I averaged an interview a month for about a year. Wow. Or interview process. Let's say interview process. that's still that's long. mean, yeah. So I started interviewing.

probably like March or April of last year, like doing interviews with the intention of being like, if I get a job that's significant, I would leave. That all came to a head and like, I'll kind of jump into the next phase. Like I actually ended up getting a separate job offer at a different company, maybe like a month and a half or two months ago. And that pushed me to the point where

I talked with the, like my direct career advisor and said like, Hey, I'm not really happy where I'm at right now with progression perspective. Um, the work that I was doing, I want to switch up, but I also want a promotion. And is this career advisor at the company? Yes. Okay. I didn't have that. career advisor is like a more senior person in your practice. And will they then go to the boss and tell them that? So they went, so the, what do mean by, so the, boss was like,

Yeah, I mean, yes, let's just say yes. So that's the person you go to to be like, Hey, like, Hey, yeah, okay. Like I have a job offer. I'm going to leave if you don't help me. So talk about that conversation specifically. Like I remember being so fucking nervous to have that conversation with my boss and to be like, Hey, I, I have, I said a very similar thing. I was like, have an offer. And if you kind of, if you don't, don't know. I was like, I'm not the person to walk in and be like balls on the table. Like

Josh Felgoise (28:16.782)

If I, you don't match this or improve that, like I was very, very nervous. was sweating. So how did you do that? And tell us about like how that went down. think you need to be intentional with the numbers that you're putting forth is the first thing that I thought about when I was going to do it. That Emma and the other thing you have to think about, if you're telling your company that you have an offering, you're considering it from somewhere else, you have to expect that they think you have one foot out the door. Well, and you have to also have to be ready to walk, right?

Like, fuck you, okay, cool. Right. So don't do that unless you're A, confident about the place that you would be going. Right. And two, don't, obviously don't do that if you don't have an offer. Like if you're fine, if you're final stages of an interview and you're like, I think I might get this. Like don't, totally don't try and good advice. Don't bluff. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So that was one thing that I was very conscious of when I was going into this conversation that

it's a big company, like they could just fire me. Like that's a possibility. Very low possibility, but it was in the back of It's thing that could happen. So I went into the conversation basically just saying like, Hey, and the thing is you try not to deflect it onto other people. Like I feel as though I have been in this position for X period of time. I'm unhappy with where I'm at and I want to be progressing.

This other role is, given me the opportunity of doing that with higher pay. And I want to know your thoughts on getting promoted in the next, whatever month period of time, whenever the promotion timeline is that you could think of. And do you think you could help me, kind of move off the engagement that I was on? Okay. That was pretty much, because that one was word for word when I told them,

It ended up going through. ended up getting off the engagement that I was on. How did you feel leaving that conversation? Like, did you feel like it was going to go your way and this person was really going to like help you succeed and get to where you get you to where you want it to go? Or what do you think? Yeah. I mean, the other thing is timing wise. I. It happened to turn out like the week that I was asking for this was also the week that.

Josh Felgoise (30:37.816)

the group of people that would go in a sit in a room and talk about who was gonna get promoted, it happened the same week. Did you know that? I had the conversation as early as possible to give myself the most leverage for the promotion cycle. Sounds strategic. It was strategic, but it also like, it happened in the perspective, like I would not have gone into that conversation that way had I not had a job offer and I couldn't have timed the job offer. Right, right. So.

I would say overall I had a good feeling like their response was very positive towards me both the career advisor and the HR person that had been brought in to kind of like deal with the whole thing. Okay. and it ended up like being how do you even schedule that type of like you do because again, my experience was so different. Like I had to put a meeting on my boss's calendar, which is what happened. Okay. So, but you said career coach, career coach, career advisor, like is, is the person who

is in charge of your career, is like the, so like the boss thing is not like a thing in consulting. Okay, but it is your boss. Yeah, my like the equivalent of a steady boss at a consulting company. Okay, sorry, I was so stuck on that. I was like, what the fuck? was like, is it like a college career? That was confusing. are both your hypothetically your boss, like you report directly to this person. Okay, okay. And they also happen to be the person that you talked to about.

your career progression and like all of that stuff. So how do they know like HR needed to be on that call? Like did they just say, why do want this call? And you said, like, I want to talk about my career. I know they, so I, that was a secondary conversation that she went and had once I had talked to her. it. Got it. Got it. Got it. Got it. Um, so I came out of that conversation fully expecting to move off the project. The promotion was again, kind of a shot in the dark. Like I didn't know if it was gonna happen. I didn't know if it was.

not going to happen. So that's like, yeah, I was positive. I had a positive outlook on it, but I also kind of already had other interviews lined up with companies that I was interested in while that conversation was happening. Okay. And it sounds like kind of sneaky to do it like that, but at the same time, and this was something that I learned a little bit after, like my perspective on why I wanted to leave, I was not happy is because I was stuck on the same

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client project for such a long period of time. And I thought doing a different project would make me feel better about the job. Functionally, that's not how it worked out. Like I started doing work for the new client and I kind of just felt like I was putting myself back in the same loop. Okay. So you knew at that time, like you were going to go somewhere else and in the short period of time, whether it would be a month or six months, but like that the goal was to continue applying. Yeah.

Okay. And I think hearing you say that, you applied for an entire year, like to these companies will be really helpful for somebody else. It's in this application process or like in this job search, because like, it does not happen overnight. It does not happen without a fuck ton of work. and I want you to talk about that too, because I think, and like, I'm sorry, we're transitioning back and forth from like your current position, but it's happening kind of at the same time too. And I just think it's important for somebody.

who I don't know, maybe doesn't have a job right now, just recently left their job, is kind of in this limbo period or doesn't know what they wanna do, to hear someone, like from someone like you who's obviously like smart and poised and like has a great career ahead of them, know that, or hear that like this was also a big struggle for you too, like, and not to say it in like that way. No, it was. Yeah, and I wanna hear about that. So when I said I did 20 plus interviews, that was with probably eight to 10 different companies. Okay. So.

The general process for the interviews that I was going through was you talk with the recruiter. The recruiter is the person that posts the job posting on LinkedIn or built in or whatever the company job posting that you look for. Like hindsight 2020, I wished I had used like an actual recruiter, like someone that goes out of their way to go and recruit people, not just someone that works for the company, like a third party recruiter. How do you even find that person? I don't know.

That's that's the other thing. Like I didn't want to spend the time and in some cases money, like sometimes recruiters will say like, Hey, if you pay us $49 or 50 bucks, like we'll go out and find a job for you and put a good word in. That's something that people do. And it just was not something that I, at the time was invested enough into to do that. But so back to the point, like I was doing these interviews where the process was you talk with the recruiter on the phone.

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They figure out like whether or not the compensation or the company that you would be working for is a right fit. The role would be a right fit. If that goes well, you talk with the hiring manager who was basically like the role that you would be hiring into. They would be your direct manager at the company. Got it. That was slightly more technical for me. And again, like I was doing roles that require a little bit of technical background that you can just go in having no, coding experience and expect to get a job like

this had a little bit more of a, technical requirement. the hiring manager interview is just gain a general sense. Like, do you know what you're talking about when it comes to whatever the role is that you're going into? Yeah. The third interview, third slash fourth, depending on what the company was would be technical interviews where you sit down and you do a coding exercise with, the hiring manager or someone on the team. And then the final round more often than not, our final two rounds were like presentations.

So that process, I went through that process probably seven to eight times. I'm going to like what we're talking numbers, like everyone I think is starting to get into our shoes. Like you were one of the first people in our group to leave your job. I, we have a bunch of friends that have started doing it. Especially with the job market right now. I think it's getting a little bit better, but

I did those eight interviews and the first five that I did, I got rejected in the final round from all of them. Wow. Which is, which is brutal. Like you go through the whole process. You do the presentation in some cases you meet like the executives of the company, if it's a smaller company and then they say like, Hey, well you're great. You've done honestly nothing wrong with the interview process, but we have someone that's been in your role for three to five years.

How did you deal with that rejection or like that like constant? I don't mean to say constant rejection, but like that sounds like that's it's I don't know like how did you not give up? How did you push through that and deal with the rejection the first few times? It was like, okay, you know like I can deal with that like I'm getting my shoes under my or my feet under my what's the saying you got it? Yeah, my feet under me like yeah, just gaining a sense of how I'm supposed to these interviews and not to say

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Like it was like practice, lot of practice learning what they're going to ask, especially with these technical interviews, like as much as you do practice on for those like that super technical people, like you do lead code or whatever the technical things that you do. there's always going to be something you ask, especially in like a presentation, example where you're not going to know what the answer was. You're never going to have heard the answer before. Right. And being able to anticipate based on the prompt of that was something that was very important for me. And I got a lot of.

practice in. the like I said, first five, I got no offer period. The I guess I didn't like roughly eight. The next three I got offers from. but like in the first five, like how did you? I don't like how did you deal with the rejection? Like I think that's one of the hardest parts about all these job like the search like the job searches, it becomes so grueling and taxing and like

Miserable because you face a lot of rejection like I think you need to take a break like that was so the reason why this whole process took for me like nine months was Every time I'd get a rejection like that process would probably take about a month. Maybe two to three weeks Maybe a little bit more than that. Okay, and being able to reset refocus on the job that you were doing Is I think the way to kind of take your mind off of like hey I got rejected. Yeah

And at the end of the day, like not beating yourself up about the fact, I mean, it sounds cliche, but at the end of the day, I, it more often than not was likely just because there was something that more experienced than I did. that's something that you cannot control. Um, I also think that throughout the interview process, like you need to be reflective on what you could have done better.

And I felt like those first two to three interviews, I really was not putting my best foot forward where I thought that on a presentation I could have practiced a little bit more or this technical part of the interview. could have been a little bit sharper. And I think that for me was another thing that hindsight 2020, when I would go through this interview process and not get it, I would tell myself like, Hey, like it's not your fault, but if you had done

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you could work on the X, Y, and Z thing a little bit better. At what point did you start reflecting and how did you actually reflect on it? Like how did you get better? Does that make sense? Yeah, I think the biggest thing about interviews is being proactive rather than reactive. again, like obviously, I mean, without being said, like you know yourself, know your resume, be technically sound enough to the point where you can get through a technical interview if that's required, but...

doing the bare minimum to get a, like, let's say you have to give a presentation. Yeah. Doing the bare minimum to get the presentation looking good and sounding good is not going to be enough to get you a job, especially in this job market. And then I realized that that was a thing that I could have done better rather than understanding, like, this is the project that I need to do. how does this presentation I'm going to do prepare me for the job that I'm going to join? Yeah. And I think like,

I mean, my job and I mean my major and LL, kind of everything I've done so far has been so different from a lot of my friends, you and a lot of our friends. But I think being as prepared as possible is the most important part to kind of answer anything. So like being prepared with like your strengths and your weaknesses and like all the questions that like you've known or you've been asked and answered a thousand times before, but also like on a deeper level, like being able to talk about like the projects you've worked on and how you've

dealt with criticism or how you've dealt with conflict and like having really strong examples of that is the best way to prepare for these interviews. Yeah. And I mean, like get to the extent. So one of the first interview processes that I did was with a company that I was really, really interested in. And they asked me if I were to fire you in a year from now, like what would that have been because of?

Wow. It's not. And the thing is like you think about it for a second. It's like, what's your weakness thing, but it's not the same thing. And even if you think like, I'm going to take this in the direction of this is one of my weaknesses. Is your weakness going to get you fired? Like probably not. How did you answer that? I fumbled a little bit. What did you say? I think at the time, like I said something along the lines of I can hyper-focus on deadlines and being in a cli- the role I was looking for was client focused like

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engineering, right? Cause you always want to spin a negative into a positive, Spin a negative into a positive. And I kind of just fumbled it. was like, at first I was like, I honestly don't know. Like, I don't know what that would have been for. And I kind of came up with the idea, like, you know, I can't hyper fixate on things and missing a deadline is something really bad in a lot of consulting formats. Right. And that would have been something that in some cases people will get fired over. And his response was like, yeah, we wouldn't fire you for that, but like, I like where you're going. And I know that, you know, again, like.

Know yourself very well. Like don't just know your weaknesses like Know like what is something that I did really badly at my last job and don't be afraid to say that yeah, so yeah, know, I think One piece of advice I heard about answering questions that you're maybe you're not sure of the answer Is like and i've learned this a lot in my in my newest job especially from my boss But being kind of kind of like taking a second taking a beat and being like that's a really good question. Let me think about that I think it's something that i've learned and

taking with me a lot into my job, but also in interviews, I think it's very helpful to do that. most people think they can't take a second and can't take a pause because in the interview we're like, but taking a second and actually thinking about it, because that's a really, I don't know how I would answer that question. How would you answer that question now? Do you have any different answer? Yeah, I think the thing that I would say now and something like, again, reflecting on my consulting experience, like it is not.

good enough to do really good at the job that's in front of you. Like you need to be able to go out and try and at least try to do things that are outside the scope of your work. so, and that's true in every job. Right. But a lot of the time, like again, especially in our job market right now, like you can't just do well at the job you're given, like, especially if you want to exceed in the role that you're being provided. seen in the eyes of the, your superiors as really good. Right. I know, but like the

your question like what would I get fired for? Like I still don't really know a good answer for that. Like I don't know why, how I could do something that would make someone want to fire me. That's a really hard question. a really, really hard question. And I mean, it's more to the point, like I don't even know if there's a good answer for that, but it's one of those things just to like prod your brain, like how well do you know yourself? I was asked in an interview, this is probably one of the biggest question, a question that I got that I was like, oh, I have no fucking clue.

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I didn't fart, that was the couch. They asked me, if you were on the cover of Time Magazine, what would it say above you? Do you wanna answer?

Not really. It's a really hard, it's like an impossible. don't know. was like, how do you like, how do you say something like that without sounding self-centered? Right. Well, but, but I think one of the things that like, and I've heard you say it a bunch of times in this, and I probably would be this, I probably say this all the time on here and don't realize it. Like I don't think, especially in an interview process, like we have to, you have to be self-centered, like not self-centered, but like confident in your abilities and confident in the work you've done and the mistakes you've made and how you've overcome them and like,

The only way to look good is by being confident. I don't think you can you there's obviously you can be too overconfident and obnoxious and look like a piece like looking an asshole. But like there's a there's a fine line but there's also a line of like you don't want to be so humble at work either. And I'm going through this right now where I don't take a lot of this is very different than the inner process. But like I don't care for credit so much.

And my work wasn't like recognized and someone else kind of got the credit for it. And it wasn't a good look for me because it was like, they're actually doing all of that. And what are you doing? But it was like, no, I'm doing, I'm the one doing that. I was being so kind of humble that I was almost kind of walked all over. Right. So there is a fine line. And I think the reason I'm so passionate about this right now is because I'm currently going through it is that like, if you're not confident and you don't like own your own shit, then like somebody else is going to, or it's going to look like somebody else is doing it.

And I'm learning that the hard way. Yeah. Currently. Yeah. So yeah. And I think that's important to bring into interviews. Like you just, have to be confident in what you're doing. And like, I just helped a friend, write a, a friend who's in this process right now is starting to look for a new job and he's reaching out to somebody on LinkedIn for the first time. And he, his message was kind of bare bones, kind of dry, just like, hi, I'm interested in this position. I'm an alumni of X school. Like would love to talk to you. And I was, I was like, no, you have to.

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add in like what you would bring to this role. Yeah, what you would bring is a big one. Right. Like is your value? So I said you should like in a quick line say I'm interested in X position and I would bring a skill set of X and X from my current position. But if you don't say any of that, it's like and I learned this in probably my senior year of college. Somebody said this because my message was really like they were like, did why would I talk to you? And I was like, fuck you. don't know. Like, yeah, I was like, that was great advice. Like

Um, so I don't know where we were, but I would, that was a bit of a side, a little tangent. Yeah. But I think it's like, it's helpful. And then in terms of the interview process, um, what is, what advice do you have for somebody who's just, and then I want to get to the transition to the next job, but like, what is your advice for somebody who's starting this process of looking for a new job as finally hit this like crux of, don't want to work at this company anymore. I'm not progressing. I'm not learning. I'm not.

being valued as much as I think I deserve to be. What is your advice for that person to start and how would you do this process differently? I would definitely start with asking yourself like whether or not you actually want to start applying elsewhere. Because if you're unintentional about it, you're going to waste time applying to jobs that will likely not end up seeing your application unless you're intentional about A, the roles that you're applying to B, and this is kind of part of the advice like

Everyone thinks that in a lot of cases, one resume is enough. And this is maybe just my point of view. But if you figure out like, Hey, I want to start applying for role one, two, and three. Like role categories, you should probably have a resume that comes up with like three different resumes, one for each one of those job categories that has tailored wording about this is the job that I did. I'm working in currently and.

this is like how it plays into the type of role that I'm applying to. That's good advice. I didn't honestly like, this is something I heard from a few of our friends and was something that I didn't take into account at all. And I realized like, if I'm writing a generic resume that I'm sending out to bunch of different roles, how am I going to stand out against other people that have pointed resumes for that specific role? Yeah. So I never thought about that before. Did you do cover letters? Yeah.

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A of cover letters. And like, would you do that again? Chat GBTs. Good. Yeah. So come up with like a generic, I would say come up with like a generic way of writing again, those categorical cover letters for rule one, two, and three, and then plop in the job description and say, Hey, take that skeleton of the cover letter that I wrote and apply it to the information that's on that job posting.

That's smart. should use our, we should use the resources that should help us. That helped me apply to a lot more places. How many do think you applied to in total? I don't even want to think about that. Like a lot, a lot, a lot. Like it's a lot 50, a hundred over a hundred for sure. Oh really? Oh, for a hundred percent. Wow. Okay. That's all I mean. It's like a lot, a lot. I would say more than was necessary. And what was your, no, mean, yeah, but what was your process in doing it? Like, did you say I'm going to apply to five a day? I'm going to do like, what was your?

So that was the thing is like I got so hyper fixated on applying elsewhere and that's what I was saying be intentional about it I got so hyper fixated on like I want to start a new job that I just sat on job boards and would see what every time like for an extended period of time like job boards meaning like LinkedIn job postings like indeed Places where jobs get posted. Are those the two you use most frequently? LinkedIn was definitely the most okay, and I'll talk a little bit about why I think there are other ways to do it, but

point being, so I started out that way where I would just sit down for like two hours at a time and just throw out applications. Because if you're doing stuff on the side, like you're doing it in the middle of work. Yeah. Again, being intentional about it, like you might accidentally write something wrong in your cover letter or something along those lines. Like you need to make sure. So I applied to Barstool and I put Paramount in the name. So my point being like,

It has to be an intentional thing that you're doing. The other thing is I honestly found that the company was the second most important thing behind the role itself to me. looking at companies that fit the general demographic of what I was looking for was a good way of looking for specific roles. So rather than looking for a role that fit the type of company that I was looking for, I looked at a roles within the company and

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applied to those directly. And lot of those times they weren't even on LinkedIn or weren't on Indeed. And I think that actually got me both of the interviews. One of them ultimately led to the job that I am going to now was looking online because on their actual website, like the company website and finding a role that fit me. Cool. Okay. I wanted to comment on so many other things that you said in there, but I feel like I've jumped a thousand different directions because I'm genuinely interested in this. feel like

We haven't sat down and talked about this. just heard that you just told me you got the new job and I knew you've been at this for so long. But we haven't actually gotten into this conversation. So what about the job that you ended up picking and going with made it the right one for you?

Out of out of the three or because you you were accepted to three. I'm trying to pick all the all like the loose ends we've talked about and I've ADHD my way through this conversation. But so the first job offer that I got that I ended up turning down was in that first period of like talking with my career advisor and the questions that I asked myself at that point in time, like was the job itself going to be at a company that I thought would be more beneficial for my work life balance and for my general overall experience?

And I had a lot of conversations with my parents about this, my brother, even some of my friends at that time. And I just don't think it really fit what I needed. Like the euphoria of getting the job offer and being like, I'm finally in a position to leave, way overcame like what the actual offer was. And I took a step back and I was like, am I really going to be happy at this, doing this job? And the answer was no.

So when I went back to that second part of the interview process, when I was saying I was being more- I'm that was a hard decision though, right? It was easily like I'd lost multiple days of sleep trying to think about what were the odds and the pros and the cons of the job offer. Yeah, because if you're in that period of like, I'm sure at that point that was like eight months, right? Of looking for a job or more, don't even know. I'm sure at that point you were like, fuck, and now I'm gonna turn this down after all this work? Like it's the one I got? Yeah. it's like-

Josh Felgoise (53:40.138)

it's important not to just jump at the first opportunity because it may not be the right one. Yeah. And that's the other thing. Like even if you dislike your job, I would consider, you going to, and when you're doing job postings, just to save yourself mental headache, like when you scan a job posting, review the company and say, like, am I really going to enjoy this, this company? And so like my second round after I started, or after I turned down that job offer, I only looked at a much smaller subset of companies to apply to.

Um, I went from pretty much any company that would take me to, Hey, I have an offer now. My head's in the right space. I'm on a new project. Like I'm, I'm in a much better, um, emotional place and said, I'm going to start applying to places that I really want to work for. And it takes a while to get there. Like you said, you were throwing out, like, you're just like desperate at first, like, please everybody just fucking take me. And then it's like, no, actually like I am good at what I do and I'm going to bring a lot of value somewhere. Exactly.

Uh, but it takes a while to get there when you're in that kind of chaotic, I want to leave state. Right. And sit next to, oh, so you got something else. Sorry. No, that was it. Good. You said, and I don't leave me there. I was going to keep going on the whole, what type of company did you look for? Yeah, that's great. So I think eventually I got to the point of. I wanted to really work for a smaller company. Like the company that I'd worked for was, I'm not going to give an exact number, like well over a hundred thousand.

Okay, huge huge huge conglomerate And I wanted to work for a company that I mean it sounds big but like under 10,000 and I wanted to work in a tech company that was like the two things that I really was like stuck on I've so again grew up in San Francisco. mean, know this but for audience Yeah grew up in San Francisco and my dad's experience and my brother's experience like he they've both kind of only really been working in the tech world

did not match up with my professional experience, like working with people, company, work life experience. And so that was the ultimate driving factor for my second round of applications. And ultimately where I accepted my offer was tech company. And then you said like of the two other offers you got, what determined the one from the other?

Josh Felgoise (55:54.99)

I mean like I guess overall compensation was a part in it. You mean the biggest part of it probably no. okay I would say the company name was actually one of the biggest things for me like Do I know the name like you don't obviously don't say it? Have you told me then it's a would I know it even like maybe I've talked to a lot of people and they're like 50 50 whether or not they know it okay, it seems like if you're big into

finance and like no more so like people that are working actively in investment banking. Okay. Like they would know it because they've heard of the company and like are aware of like what it carries the name carries. Well but I'd heard especially like I don't know after you say that I was reminded of I've heard before that having a name on your comp on your resume is important and like yeah and at this job right now it's an unknown company name but even

saying the one that I worked at before to people and being like, have you heard it? And they're like, yeah, I know it. It brings some stature to the conversation. So I understand wanting to work for a named company. And I think a lot of people feel that way too. So I think that makes sense. Right. And I think it's different when I say named. Like named, the company that I worked for, or I guess technically still working at, but like the company that I'm- You're still working there right now? Yeah, this is my last week. Congrats. They are a huge name. Like everyone knows who they are.

But I'm talking like prestige wise, like this company that I'm joining, especially in the tech world is one of those companies that's like a little bit smaller. It's not like a Google or a Meta or whatever, but they are very well known for having really smart people. And especially like software engineers, they're very, very well known for having like super top tier new hires and job hires. So what are you most, well, actually one more thing about leaving.

Before I get into the new one, last last thing, how did you tell your other coworkers that you were leaving? Like the ones you and care about? so awkward about it. Like I realized in the moment that my biggest like weakness is telling people tough news. It's, it's hard. It's so difficult. It's so awkward. yeah. Like it's really hard because you practice something a little bit. Like mentally I was just, this is what I'm going to say. I ran through my lines too. I know exactly. Yeah. And I mean,

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It was different for every person that I told it to depending on like how close I was with them And it also depended like if I was doing it in person versus over ping So share like how one of the conversations went like maybe with your closest co-worker work friend whatever I think it's like all of my co-workers that are really close with me kind of knew that I was Upset upset. Yeah, and we're on under the impression that I would be leaving at some point and so the conversation with them mostly went like hey, you know, I

been in a bad place with the work that I've been doing. Like, you know, I haven't been getting promoted. Um, like I put in my two weeks last Friday, like next week is going to be my last week. Um, I'm going to be doing a quick happy hour. Like I'd love to see you there and say my goodbyes. It's like, it's been, I mean, the thing is like most of the people that I'm close with, I didn't work with. that's, couldn't say like, it's been great working with you, but I would have said that if I did work with them. No, of course. Okay. But no, that that's helpful for some like.

Again, that's an awkward part of all of this, and it's a part that you have to do and go through, so hearing somebody share that is helpful. So what are you most excited for about the new job, and what will you take from the last one and bring to it? So, I mean, I think I'll take everything. Like, obviously the work that I was doing, like we talked about pigeonhole, like it's a very specific type of work that I will not be continuing on doing. It's much more generic engineering, but...

I will not be like, feel like I never really had imposter syndrome, which is like a really big thing coming out of college. Like I felt like I was in the right place technically. and I feel like I actually have imposter syndrome now and I'm really worried that I'm going to show up. And like I mentioned, like the, one of the things that I was looking for was a smaller tech company. Like, I don't know how much of my experience at a big consulting firm is going to translate to the people that I'm going to be working with.

and do the skills that I built at my old company, are they really gonna apply? Yeah, mean, I know this is exactly what I went through and probably for the first three, four months when I was at my company, I felt this way. I did it, I think I did an episode called Impostor Syndrome on here because I felt it so deeply. I was like, what am I doing? How did I get here? Is my opinion valid? Do these people care about my opinion? Is what I'm saying even listened to? I felt...

Josh Felgoise (01:00:38.08)

Like I was, don't know how I ended up in that place or the place I'm in right now. And I think it takes a second to like get to get back to the place where you believe in yourself. And it takes a second to start to feel more confident in what you actually bring in your value. And like I don't want to say like it gets worse before it gets better in terms of imposter syndrome, but I kind of do believe that that like that was my

I was gonna ask you about your biggest anxieties about joining the new company. I'm assuming this is probably the one or is there more? Please share more of your deepest darkest anxieties. I'm trying to think like, I don't know. The other thing that I'm keeping in mind here is I'm joining with a group of other people, which is pretty cohort. Yeah, like cohort of I think I learned that word 14 to 15 people who are in my exact position.

So I feel like I'm going to be in a not unique situation, like where you were, where you're joining a team that's already established, right? So that for me was a peace of mind thing that helped release one of my biggest anxieties, like going on to a team that was already built, like coming up to speed, like how I don't want to ask too many questions and sound stupid, but, I think I'll be in it. that, but so that it's like, the answer is that was my biggest anxiety, but I didn't realize at the time that I would be joining with a group of other people that were my situation.

That makes sense. want to share one thing about that because I think it's I've learned it recently as well. Like people think asking questions is it makes you look dumb and like people think they're stupid questions. And I'm sure I've asked questions. I know I've asked questions that I'm sure people have been like, how does he not know that? But compared to the guy or the I'm not saying a specific person but compared to the person who says like, yeah, I know that.

and you clearly know has no fucking clue what they're talking about. I would so much rather be the guy that asks, oh, what does that mean or what is that? And then actually know what I'm doing to move forward. Then the guy who's like, oh yeah, like I could do that. And then in two weeks, it's like you didn't do anything because you don't actually know what you're talking about. Yeah. Yeah. And I've seen that more, more and more as I've worked. And I would always like, I think this is probably one of my biggest pieces of advice in the work setting. Like I would always rather be the guy asking the question that

Josh Felgoise (01:02:59.054)

May seem stupid then the guy that doesn't ask and then flops later because they didn't actually know what they were doing Yeah agreed. So that's one thing about like being the asking the stupid questions that you just reminded me of but on the imposter syndrome I just want to close that loop and then you also had something you wanted to say earlier like maybe 45 minutes ago that you said let's get back to this so I Wanted to bring that up because like I'm gonna remember. Give me a second. Okay, well I talk about imposter syndrome. You can just tune me out. Yeah. Yeah

Or listen, because I want to hear your response to. in terms of imposter syndrome, like the feeling of you, you don't feel like you belong there or like, what I'm doing worth it? Or is my ability as good as all the rest of these people and is what I bring as good as everybody else? I think once you start to get into your role and get into a groove of what you're doing and like improve, like you'll, you'll, you'll mess up, but like once you mess up and learn from that and then start to improve.

you'll get out of that a little more. I think it just takes time and reps and like days and days and weeks. Yeah, I agree. What are some things you'd wish you'd done differently in terms of this whole process and what would you do the same? Yeah, so this is actually what I was going to talk about. great. One of the things. So the thing that

I was gonna talk about at the very beginning, which is like, could I have done differently in my previous job? Like self-reflection, what could I have done in my experience at that job? And something that my career advisor actually unknowingly sent me a Ted Talk, like a few weeks before I ended up leaving, that really, really stuck with me, that the term sponsor,

is something that might have a negative connotation in some circumstances, but in this scenario was someone that will vie for you, that is a senior person in your company, whether that be your direct manager, someone that's their boss, and is not something that I did at all, which is absolutely the worst thing that you can do when the goal of what you're trying to do is progress and learn more and gain more responsibility is at the end of the day, there's always going to be someone that

Josh Felgoise (01:05:18.498)

decides whether or not you get a promotion or a money raise. If you don't have someone above you to back that and say, for me, like, Luca has been great on X, Y, and Z things that he's been doing, you're never gonna be in a position to really get that promotion or that raise because you, like, you can go forward and tell someone all the things that you've done, but if someone has sat through that whole process with you,

and you give them a monthly update on like, are the things that I've done, it will exponentially help your ability to succeed down the line, get promoted, get a job, a raise or whatever it may be. And is something that I really, I think fumbled the bag on when I was in my previous, or I guess current previous job. And that's like the one thing that I really wish I had done differently. First of I that's really good advice. I think having somebody, whether it's a...

boss or a coworker or somebody that can vouch for you and your work and be like, no, this guy like is he works hard and like he, puts in the effort and he's really giving it his all. Like having that person is really important. And second of all, like, why do you think you didn't have that? Was there not a coworker or a mentor, a boss or somebody that like, I don't know. I, I've never, I don't think I've been in a position where somebody, yeah. Why, why do think you didn't have that? I mean, the major thing is like the company that I worked at.

It had a very structured way of doing promotions where it's a group of people sit in a room together and decide, like basically almost the top level group of people will sit in a room and to say like, this person gets promoted. This person doesn't in a lot of the cases, you might not be working with anyone who sits in that room on a day to day on your, in your work. Got it. So if you tell someone like, Hey, this is the work that I've been doing. They're going to be like, okay, that's good. Like great for you.

Like I'm happy that you're doing work, but if you can get someone like the person you're working with, like your direct manager on a project or someone to go to that person who sits in the room and say, Hey, like he might be telling you what he's been done. Like he'd been doing from a work perspective. He absolutely should get promoted and hear the reasons why it only makes that impact of, wow, I really need to push for this person specifically. I, and I just didn't do that. Like I didn't.

Josh Felgoise (01:07:42.196)

make it a point early on to say, I want to get promoted early. Can you go and tell this person that sits in the room that I deserve to get promoted? And that's, again, like it's a life skill. Like you need to be, again, one of the main things of this episode has been like proactivity. Like be proactive if you want to get promoted and set that expectation early. So not only do you think you need to be performing above what you're performing, but people are giving you work.

compensatory to the position that you could be in. I think exactly what you just said, but also being proactive about advocating for yourself. And that's something that I don't do enough and I don't, and it sounds like you didn't do enough and people don't do enough because of the ways we were talking earlier today being like, I don't know, this might sound self-centered, this might be a little annoying, but if we don't advocate for ourselves, nobody else will.

literally nobody else will. So if you don't share your worth or present on it or let people know what you've been doing, and again, I'm activated about this because it's what's going on in my current job, if you don't advocate for yourself, nobody else will. And that's something that I've continued to have to learn the hard way. And I think that's kind of like another big thing from this episode. It's like being proactive about putting yourself in a position where you are telling other people like,

this is where I want to be. Yeah, but that's also like presenting on what you're doing and letting people know and informing them on what you do. And it's something that a lot of us don't do. Yep. So I'm so excited for you about the new job. I you shared a lot of really valuable things for somebody that one is maybe in the position of I don't like my job right now and I'm not sure if I want to leave, but I think I do and just is in that kind of limbo period.

but also really good advice and perspective for somebody who's in that right now. And it's like, I'm in this interview process right now. It is not going that well. I feel like a failure. I'm getting rejections left and right and like, I don't know what the fuck to do. And also for the person who is finally getting to take that transition period and leave the job and start a new one. think you hit on all of that and I think it's awesome. And I'm so excited that we

Josh Felgoise (01:10:04.032)

Went it's a long episode, but I we we really went through like a lot of that And I don't think I hit on it well enough when I left my job and started the new one And i'm really happy to have another perspective and somebody to do that with me. So yeah, and I mean like the last thing that i'll say Especially if you're thinking about starting that interview process as you're in that interview process and you get a rejection like think of that as a

another building block for you to bring forward to the next interview process. again, practice makes perfect. Don't get down on yourself. Cause like at the end of the day, like you get better every single time you do it. And there's a reason why maybe this is just my experience. I received so many failures before I got my first acceptance. It's just, it's just the nature of the nature of the beast. Name of the game. Yeah. Name of the game. Anything else you want to say to everybody listening? No, I think that's it.

Thanks for having me on the podcast. Thanks for coming on. This was great. This was really good. I'm glad. All right. That's the episode. Bye everyone. That is the episode. Thank you so much. Listening to guys said a guy's guide to what should be talked about. If you like this episode, I really hope you did. Please like subscribe and give this podcast five stars. That's one, two, three, four, five stars, not four, not three, not two, not one five. Thank you so much. If you have any topics we talked about that should be talked about for guys in their 20s and to my DMS, it's at the guys set T H E G U Y S E T on Instagram.

You can follow the podcast and watch this whole episode on YouTube or you can email me. It's josh at guyset.com j-o-s-h at G-U-Y-S-E-T.com and I'll be sure to talk about it. Next week's episode is another really great interview and you do not want to miss it. So I will see you guys there. Thank you so much. Listen to guys set a guy's guide to what should be talked about and I will see you guys next Tuesday. See you guys.