Inside New York’s Wildest Restaurant Stories with Michael Cecchi-Azzolina

Josh Felgoise (00:00.206)

Welcome to Guy's Set, the guy's guide to what you should be talking about. I'm Josh, I'm 23 years old, and I'm here to find all the tips, advice, and recommendations for guys in their 20s. Let's get into it.

Josh Felgoise (00:18.402)

Hi guys, welcome back to Guy's Set, the guy's guide to what should be talked about. I first wanted to say thank you to everybody who listened to the opening episode of the podcast. No, these podcasts will not be four minutes long. That was just an opening kind of sequence to introduce you to the podcast. I wanted to introduce you to the format of the podcast.

So one week will be me talking solo about a topic that is going on in my life or something I think should be talked about for guys in their 20s. And those will look like 15 to 20 minute kind of snack size episodes you can listen to kind of quickly to get your answers to those questions. And then the following week will be an interview that will look more like 40 minutes to an hour long. Since these interviews are long and people don't always have time to listen to the entire thing, I will always time stamp in the comments.

what we talk about in different sections so you can skip around to whatever you're really interested in. Of course, I recommend listening to the entire thing, but if something interests you more or a topic is boring to you, skip it. I am really looking forward to having people across all different industries to hear all different thoughts and perspectives and advice that will hopefully be beneficial for guys in their 20s. So now I am thrilled to introduce my first ever guest to this podcast.

And I want to tell you the story of how I got my first guest because that is the hardest part. Michael Cechy Azzolina is the author of the book, Your Table is Ready, Tales of a New York City Matri. I really love memoirs. Doesn't matter who they are. And I was looking on Amazon for the next book I wanted to read. And I saw this. I'm really interested in the restaurant world in New York City and who knows it better than the person at the front of the restaurant. So I read his book, not knowing what to expect at all.

and was shocked by the stories and encounters this guy had through his life and through this industry. I couldn't make half this shit up that he talks about if I tried. I wanted to have Michael on because he started off in the restaurant industry as the lowest man in the establishment, kind of out of necessity, climbed his way all the way up to the top and is now opening his own restaurant in New York City today actually, which is wild.

Josh Felgoise (02:31.361)

He's been in the business for decades and really knows how it works. If you enjoy the stories he tells in this, there is so much more he didn't share. The restaurant world in the 1980s was the wild, wild west. Let me lay out a normal day or I guess night for Michael during his time starting in the industry, taking drugs at 4 a.m. in Tompkins Square Park, going to bed at 12 and waking up at 3 p.m. to put on a tux and do it all again. This was his norm.

The conversation goes everywhere from what life was like in New York City during the 80s, his first apartment in the East Village, his experiences in therapy, his experience with Anna Delvey, Mick Jagger, Johnny Carson, and Meghan Markle, to what to look for when walking into a restaurant. We really cover it all.

This was my first ever interview. I'm not sure if Michael knew that at the time or still knows that to this day. When I Instagrammed Ian Michael to be a part of the podcast, I didn't explicitly make that clear. So I really appreciate him taking a chance on me with this one. A little fake it till you make it. That being said, there are things I wish I had said differently or asked questions a little bit differently, but you have to start somewhere. I also wanted to bring it to your attention that this conversation, as I said, goes in so many different directions.

that did not expect and I'm really happy it did and he felt comfortable speaking so openly honestly with me and a part of the conversation we had was really important and should be talked about more often for everyone. But that being said, there are some conversations about drug and alcohol abuse as well as his experiences with different types of therapies. So if you'd like to skip over that section completely understandable, just skip from timestamp 19 minutes and 30 seconds to 25 minutes and 35 seconds.

And without further ado, please welcome Michael Ketchy-Azelina to Geissan.

Josh Felgoise (04:21.328)

Nice to meet you. This is awesome. Thanks, Josh. Yeah, you got some cool stuff going on, man. Thank you. I'm so happy you like it and I'm happy you agreed to do this. Yeah. I mean, you know, you're a young guy and you got got you got you're all over the place. It's great. I love ambition, you know, and yeah, it's important. That's really, really nice. And I really felt like I related to you when I started reading your book with kind of starting out your career and not

fully knowing what you wanted to do and just kind of pushing through and getting to where you are today. So that's why I really wanted to have you on and just hear about how you started. Yeah, no, I had no idea what I wanted to do. Could you actually just talk a little bit more about that? Yeah, so, know, I grew up in Brooklyn and to an Italian immigrant family. My mother and father were born here, but it was, you know, I was the first person in my family to go to university.

There was never any talk of it. I didn't know what they were really. You you heard about college, but what did it mean? And I didn't know. I only actually, I left Brooklyn because it was really bad when I was growing up. And I left it because I was on, I did an acid trip and I was coming to in the morning and I realized this is really fucked up. I got to get out of And so it was a trouble. was a violent neighborhood.

lots of drugs at the time. And so I left and because living in Florida, I went down to Florida, finished my last year of high school down there. And a friend of mine shows me a Playboy magazine and says, look at this. And the University of Florida had been voted the number one party school in the country. And he said, that's where we're going. And I had no plans. I didn't know what I was doing. I was working at a Levitt's furniture store, stocking the accessories. And so we applied, we both got in.

and that started me in a number of directions. What year was this by the way? 74. Okay, got it. 74, yeah, so was a long time ago, a long time ago. you know, the first year I lived up to the school's reputation and I spent partying and I crashed and burned and realized I gotta get serious. And I did, and the opportunity there got me both into the acting career and also into the restaurant career.

Josh Felgoise (06:44.848)

So here was a guy that was completely lost in terms of his school or anything. And I had a girlfriend whose ex-boyfriend had done theater and she said you should audition for a play. did. And we, I got cast on my first play probably because this was when streaking was popular. I don't know if you even know what streaking is, but it's when everybody- Running naked?

You run around thinking, yeah. And it was like a national thing. And so the play was a revival of Tom Jones, which is written in like the 17th century. But they incorporated streaking in it. And I think I got cast and a number of us because we agreed to take off our clothes and streak across the stage. So I think it had nothing to do with talent. But there, but the theater became very famous. In fact, it's about to have...

It's 50th anniversary. It was there maybe five or 10 days before I started. And I'm going down to the reunion, but it's become the State Theater of Florida. There's a big thing going on, but it was just gaining notoriety when a guy named Bob Moss shows up to audit it for the National Endowment for the Arts so they could possibly get some money. Bob had started a theater in New York called Playwrights Horizons. And nothing to start the theater, but he built the theater in the worst neighborhood probably in the world.

42nd Street. This is the 42nd Street of Taxi Driver, Panic and Needle Park, when it was basically the demilitarized zone. You had to, you you just took your life in your hands walking down the street there. And there was a block of abandoned bordellos, whorehouses, and they got money to convert them into theaters, which is still today New York's Theater Row. And Claret's Row was one of the first ones. And right next to the theater was a restaurant.

But anyway, I graduate school, I come up to New York and I talk myself into a job at Playwrights Horizons, which was great because I want to stay in the theater, but the problem was, especially back then, there was no money, there's still no money in theater. And my salary, I became associate to Bob Moss, the producing director, and my salary was zero and he needed a job. So he convinced the guy who had the restaurant next door, who he knew, to hire me as a waiter. So my restaurant career was out of necessity. I needed money to live.

Josh Felgoise (08:58.828)

and I wasn't making it with the theater and I was in grad school at NYU at the time. And so I realized, okay. I needed money and I took the job, but I took the job. You I had worked when I was a kid, a teenager in a candy store in Brooklyn, which are also luncheonettes known as luncheonettes now. And I was a soda jerk. I was making egg creams and sodas.

packing ice cream, then I became a short order cook. So I knew at like 15 years old. So I knew the restaurant business per se, but not, you know, serious restaurant business. So I loved that. And my first wedding job I loved. And this restaurant was on theater row, as I said, and it was a theater restaurant. And all the theater luminaries of the day would show up. you're looking at, mean, Richard Gere was there. He had just got cash and looking for Mr. Goodbar and had to leave a play.

at Playwrights Horizons and Christine Baranski, who's now very well known, was just starting out. Mick Jagger was there for parties. So you're in this environment. A kid from Brooklyn is suddenly in the middle of New York with celebrities constantly. And it was fun. It was a blast. So I loved it. So that got me the start in the restaurant career. It was really by necessity, but I absolutely loved it.

That's amazing. So can you talk a little bit more about New York in that time? Was it what it is today or talk a little bit more about that? No, no, was a completely different world. Manhattan now is so gentrified. Manhattan had ghettos, you had the East Village, the Upper West Side was awful. No one lived below Houston Street. You know, it was dead down there around the Wall Street area, lower Manhattan. Nobody lived there. Your great neighbors were the Upper East Side.

you know, midtown, and I got my first apartment in the East Village. That's where I am right now. Okay, well, so the East Village then, cab drivers wouldn't go east of Second Avenue because it was such a high density crime area. You'd have to get out of the cab and walk. I lived what's called Alphabet City. So I lived between Avenue A and B and have to walk home at night. And many times I'd have to use the pay phone from the corner to call the cops.

Josh Felgoise (11:10.404)

to go down the block so I can get into my building because there were junkies and muggers waiting for someone to come home and do what was then called push-in break-ins where they would hide behind a car, you put the key in the lock and they would jump in behind you, mug you, which actually happened to me. It happened once. It was just my own fault. But it was a very dangerous area. It was full of drugs. Most of the buildings were burnt out.

If you have any visions of the South Bronx at the time with all these burnt out areas, these villages was exactly the same. So I got an apartment there because it was $200 a month and it was a fairly decent apartment. Now they're going for, you know, thousands and thousands of dollars. So I had a low rent and I was making some money in the restaurant world, but up in 42nd Street. So you would take a taxi and I would get out of the subway on 42nd Street and you had to walk from 7th Avenue to 10th Avenue, basically. And

Those four, that four block radius there was considered the worst crime neighborhood in the world. The crime rates were so high. So half the time you have to walk in the middle of the street to avoid everyone, the drug dealers and the muggers and the junkies. It was a mess just to stay out of trouble. There are fights breaking out. And the 42nd street, between 7th and 8th would have on each corner, four cops stationed on the four corners.

four on the 7th Avenue side, eight on the 7th Avenue side, eight on the 8th Avenue side. And they wouldn't go up and down the block, but they stood there. So if something happened, they would run down the block and try and clear it out. I was actually, you know, was walking to work one day and I see this woman standing on the corner and I recognized her and I realized I went to high school with her. And she, at this point, she was a junkie and she was a prostitute. And I remember her in 10th grade, she would drop Quaaludes.

in the class in 10th grade, like the second class in the morning. And by the end of that class, she would get so high that I'd have to hold her up in her chair from falling over. so, you know, it was that kind of world. And it was very, very violent. And it's now very much changed. It's very much changed. Very different. I related to you as well, because I believe your first part was what, fifth? Fifth in A, was it? Sixth. You said in the book? Sixth B.

Josh Felgoise (13:34.64)

And I'm right near there and it is completely different now and a lot of my friends live right there as well and it's yeah, it's completely changed. So I was interested to hear about what it used to be like. My apartment was actually I was in the back and it was the old style fire escapes where there was no stairs connecting the fire escapes. It was just a fire escape like a balcony almost. And if there was a fire, your balcony connected to the building next door.

And if you had to escape, you could go out on the balcony, you couldn't walk anywhere, or break into the apartment next door, hopefully that that wasn't burning down. So I figured no one was gonna break into my apartment because you couldn't get down from the, I was on the third floor, you couldn't get down from the roof. So I'd leave my windows open in the summer and I really didn't worry about it. And there was a period there for like a month I was going home and I realized, know, let me get a bottle of wine that I in the refrigerator. I'd go in there and there was no wine in the refrigerator. I go, oh.

What did I do? Did I miss it or something? And I would see little matches, burnt matches on the floor. And I thought, I don't smoke. I mean, did I have friends over? Were they smoking? Why was that there? And I go to get clothes. I had a David Letterman t-shirt I got when I went to the Letterman show and it disappeared. I couldn't find it. Well, I go home one day and I see the window is the fire escape is wide open and I was robbed. They broke in.

they had to get a rope and climb down to get into my apartment and they ripped me off. So I went to put a gate on that window and there were two other windows. I go home the next night after work, I was working in restaurant and they broke in again. They did it three days in a row. I had eventually put gates on all the windows so no one would be breaking in. So that was what the neighborhood was like and what New York was like. I mean, know, the streets were littered with junkies, this was before the crack epidemic. But what it was then,

was the art and the energy was amazing. know, the bands, Blondie, the Ramones were playing at the clubs at CBGB. You had Basquiat doing his paintings and hanging out in Tompkins Square Park. Keith Haring was doing his drawings. He did them in the subway. He put them on the floor or on the walls. And that's how his art began, how it became discovered. So you had such energy and there were the great clubs. There was the Mudd Club and Dance Atteria where

Josh Felgoise (15:53.484)

Madonna was discovered. know, it was such a heightened energy artistically, creatively, that doesn't exist anymore in the city, which is kind of sad. So take me back to that kid in the restaurant, not really knowing what he's doing, kind of being thrown into this scenario with celebrities. What were you feeling then? Did you see this as a career for yourself? Were you excited about the potential of moving up in that industry? Not at all.

It was not, to me, wasn't a career at all. It was exciting. It was, this was glamorous, you know? This is, know, Broadway stars were coming in, movie stars, famous directors. They'd all be there, you know, in this little restaurant. And so to me, was, it was a blast. I was making money and it was a party. I loved it. I never had intentions of being in the restaurant business. It was a brutal job. You weren't treated very well for the most part, but we happened to have fun.

It was sort of absentee ownership. So we had a blast. It sounded like it in the book for sure. What shift did that that led you to want to be in the restaurant industry from just that fun kid to where you are now? It was always necessity and it was it was always because it was flexible and you can make decent money in a short amount of time. So you can work three or four shifts a week and make your nut and still allow your time to rehearse and audition in the daytime.

It was a means to an end. It was a means to an end. But I loved it. I've really, it wasn't like, some people take restaurant jobs, waiter jobs especially, and they hate it. They don't want to be there. They want to do other things. I really liked it, you know? But everything I've done, I always wanted to be the best at it. And so if I'm going to do this and I'm getting paid for this, I'm going to spend eight, 10, 12 hours in this room.

know, with people, I'd also be damn good at it. And I was, I like people, I like to talk to people. And so I did my darndest to learn as much as I could in there and sort of make my way up the ladder because might as well make really good money while I'm gonna be there and sort of make sure that I can leave and do shows and films and things like that. So while it was a necessity, I enjoyed it every step of the way. And back in those days in the eighties, New York was the wild west and you were, you know,

Josh Felgoise (18:14.564)

It was a party. Your guests were coming in. were handing you grams of Coke as a tip and expected you to do it. Or let's open a bottle of champagne, a glass of champagne. Let's go out, come out with us afterwards, going to this club. You know, the restaurant world in the 80s took over from the Studio 54.

environment. When Studio 54 closed, you all these people used to going out and partying and that closed, they wanted to go somewhere cool and hip. And suddenly there were restaurants that provided that. Keith McNally's Odeon was one of the first. And I worked at a place called the Water Club that became hugely successful. And every celebrity went there. So restaurants replaced the club world for the most part. I obviously there's a lot of clubs.

But with more of the well-heeled, you know, people looking forward to go out and spend a lot of money on dinner. I was very lucky, very fortunate to work in very good restaurants. And that was the vibe. And so you had a blast. You were having fun. It was hard work, you know, don't get me wrong. And people burnt out doing it. Yeah, I can imagine. Because of customers you're dealing with, or the owners, or the managers, but...

the benefits way, way, way outweighed the negative aspects of it. So during those times when people got burnt out or you felt burnt out, what did you do that or what did you tell yourself? What mentality did you bring or was it out of necessity that you were like, I have to this out? I guess burnt out wasn't the right word. We would get really frustrated and angry and why are we doing this? I wanna be an actor, I don't wanna be a waiter. Why do we gotta listen to this bullshit? But then you're on the burnt out. But what did you do? You drank and you did drugs. It got you through the night.

And it was, I mean, everyone was doing it. It was crazy. Cooks, busters, bartenders, customers. It was, I guess, know, it was the roaring twenties. Our time for the roaring twenties. And so that's what you did. I mean, I can't tell you how many people I worked with wound up in AA or NA and, you know, 12 step program because it was crazy. Crazy. So what, what kept you from all of that? What kept you from overdoing it and ending there like other people did?

Josh Felgoise (20:25.376)

I did overdo it. I did. And I just, I was good at it. You know, you could be out all night, but me and number of other people, we'd be out all night and, you know, scoring drugs at Tompkins Square Park at four or five in the morning, getting to bed at 12 or one and getting up at three, putting a tuxedo on going into work. you know, I guess we were young and we could do it. It wasn't destroying us yet, you know, but I eventually stopped everything in the nineties, the early nineties, because I couldn't do it anymore. You just can't.

Was there a point that you felt destroyed or that you felt that it was too much for you? Absolutely. was, I was really going down, joining us a really hard road and my girlfriend at the time left me and she started going to AA. And because she thought she had a problem, I don't think she did. And it got me to stop. I stopped for a good five years. And in that period, I went through massive amounts of therapy of all kinds.

and put myself, I think, back on the right track. So I haven't looked back. know, I'm pretty okay with all that stuff. I'm not sure if you're comfortable talking about that, but because we've gotten there, I'm just kind of curious about that time in your life and how the therapy helped you through that, you're comfortable talking about it, if not, that's okay. Well, I'm comfortable, yeah, sure. I didn't put it in the book. I alluded to it. It would just be, I think it's strayed from

the purpose of the book, which is about the restaurant world. But I do write about, I have history of sexual abuse. And it's not uncommon for sexual abuse survivors to wind up as alcoholics or drug addicts. It was very common. So the therapies that I did, I did a lot of body work, I did talk therapy. I went to South Dakota to work with American Indians and shaman and do sweat lodges. I did every possible form of therapy that I knew how to do and was the hardest thing in my life to come to terms with my abuse.

And to release that and there's ways of doing it and most of it was through bodywork And I really felt that I got to release it where I was no longer trying to kill myself Because I think that's what you're doing, you know, if you're ingesting that amount those amounts of drugs and alcohol Well, that's not being healthy. You're not trying to you know, live a clean life and all no, you're trying to destroy yourself So when I got to the point where I didn't want to kill myself because I realized the abuse wasn't my fault, you know

Josh Felgoise (22:50.1)

I could then, I got a clear head. I got a clear head and I realized what was going on, you know. It's dangerous your whole life, but you deal with it. You deal with the demons and you could really, I feel for me, I was able to put it behind me. If there's someone that you, that is listening to this that is dealing with something similar, what would you recommend that they do?

I think the first steps is definitely 12-step programs because they're very, very good, but you've got to get the therapy. You have to understand what the crux of the problem is. And there's so many modalities of body work. There's craniosacral work. There's reiki. There's body dynamics. There's all these things to release the trauma in the muscles because trauma resides physically in your body. And once you begin to release it, it...

starts to lose its hold over you. I don't want to get too much into it because it's not like you're an expert. Though I did wind up doing some healing work for a while after doing a lot of this. what can happen, as long as you get it out of your body, go through that method, you're on a good track. It can really help you. Thank you for sharing that. I really appreciate it. And I think anybody hearing that that is also in a similar situation would appreciate that as well. So thank you.

My next couple of questions are about did you find this career, I guess the answer is going to be no, but did you find this career healthy and how did you shift it into a healthier career with you now starting out a new restaurant and all that stuff? Yeah, I think we kind of answered that. mean, it wasn't healthy and I had to really get, you know, had to get sober, had to get clean to go back to get back on track. And I did. So it's changed. Look, it's not as the restaurant world is not as unhealthy as it was, but

To that end, people who work in restaurants full time, you're in a business that's incredibly stressful. It's ridiculously stressful and you're dealing with things from all different areas, from owners, from managers, from cooks, from your customers. And five feet away, there's a whole bar full of booze. So it's very easy to do that. Or if you're not drinking at work, you're going out after work. So it's not...

Josh Felgoise (25:02.71)

what it was, but even, know, there's local bars that people in restaurants go to after work, you know, and they go there and they'll drink all night. I stopped doing it. I don't know where half of them are anymore. But of course it's still happening, but it happens in any business, you know? How many times, you know, at five o'clock at happy hour, while you're not working in a restaurant, all those people there are pounding it down. A hundred percent. Yeah. So it's not just with the restaurant world. It's, you just need to figure out what, where you're going and how you're going to mitigate.

the negative effects that are always available, especially in a big city. So now that you're throwing yourself back into this business and this career, when times get stressful, as they inevitably will, what will you do to alleviate that or deal with that stress? Breathe. Breathe. then you get to a point where you realize much of the stress that's happening in the business is not about you. It's about someone else. It's about,

When you get that angry customer, you really got to realize, you know, buddy, I'm sorry you're having a horrible day, but I didn't do it to you. It wasn't me, you know, I'm sorry mommy and daddy didn't help you out back then, but don't take it out on us. And so you just realize that you're just part of it.

and you're not creating it, hopefully you're not creating it, and realize that it's not about you, and there's so much good in the business. I have met so many wonderful people. I love the job. For me, the restaurants are creating experiences for other people, which is, it's theater, too. It's the same thing for me. And so every person that walks through that door, I feel that they need to be given the best experience possible in the environment that I'm working within at that time. You've walked through that door,

you're bringing yourself in, well, you're in our hands, let's take you along for the ride. So most people love that and wanna be there, and it's not so bad. And the older you get, you find more ways of coping. There's a moment in the book near the end about when you were working at Lake Hookoo, which is across the street from where I work now. haven't been, obviously, but it's too expensive. I looked at the menu one time as I was walking by. Maybe when my parents come in.

Josh Felgoise (27:14.36)

You talk about a moment when Stephen Starr, who was your boss at that time, came in angry about an angry customer and you kind of hid in the corner. Can you, and it was the whole steak moment, can you tell that story and talk about that? it was the lamb. The lamb, I'm sorry. customer came in and it was a very difficult customer. He was one of the most...

He was probably the most hated customer at Le Cuckoo, right? Staff, kitchen, floor staff and all. He was just not a very nice person. And the first trip in there, the restaurant was too cold for them and they complained and he asked for the, you know, is this kind of chef-cooked lamb? Yeah, the chef-cooked lamb. Is it good? It's delicious. I'd like it medium rare. Sure, no problem. The chef, they've complained a lot and I had to go to the table as the maitre d' to sort of placate them and I sort of took their order.

as opposed to the captain taking the order. Well, the lamb comes out and he finds it's overcooked. And he's going, I thought the chef could cook. I take this away and all. Anyway, they had a miserable time and I decided to comp their check. I just realized it wasn't worth it. They didn't like anything and they're not gonna come back. So comp it, let's move on. Let's move on. As they're leaving, he looks at me and he said, so how do I get back here? And I'm like,

Well, why would you want to come back here? I might want to dine with you. So I gave him my card. I said, reach out to me. Sure enough, about a month later, he gets in touch with me and he's coming back to the restaurant. And I didn't have to take the reservation. This guy was so nasty and so surly, but something in me made me say, I'm going to take it. And I did. And when the chef found out I took the reservation, he wanted to kill me. Just why you this person back in the restaurant? He came back again and we had the exact same thing happen. He sent things back.

and we had to placate him. And he kept coming back and I kept taking him for whatever the reason. He turned out to be a very good customer. we'd walk him off the ledge and then he became fine. But I stayed with it and I don't know why I stayed with it. But if something was in me, like, I'm going to turn this around. And I'd never done that before. People that were that awful, I just won't take the reservation. You're not coming back here. But I did. And I don't know.

Josh Felgoise (29:37.59)

Well, we're in hospitality, you know, so you want to make people, you want people to be happy. You don't want anyone leaving angry. But there are, there are, there are, are breaking points. There's a certain point where I have told customers, we don't want you back here. You have to leave. We're not going to serve you. Just, just get up now and go because what you're doing is rude to the staff. You're not going to have a good time and we're not going we're going to end it right now. So just go. Something about this guy, I don't know. There was, there was,

I don't know why I did it with this guy. I don't know why did it, once I committed to doing it, I was going to let it go. I was going to follow through with it. And I did. Yeah. You try and do that with people, know, you don't give up, you know, look, if someone comes in and there's an overcooked steak, we'll fix it. You know, if they don't like their server for whatever the reason, we'll put another server on the table. There's a million things you can do and they might not come back, but that's okay. But you know, you could say, Hey, we gave it our best shot. This place is not for them. They're not going to come back.

or we gave it our best shot and now they're a regular customer for the next 10 years. You just never know. You're dealing with the public and it can go either way. But most of the time, it's great. It really is. At the same restaurant, you dealt with a very famous customer who kind of rose to fame recently because of a new show on Netflix. I'd love to hear about your experiences with Anna Delvey.

I know it came up in the book and you talked about when she walked in she lived above the hotel and the way you did it the way you crafted that story was so perfect because when you Said her name I I was on walking on the street and I was shocked and I would just love to hear about yeah, yeah She was a character and and she's you know, I there was just a picture of her in the paper She's all dressed up and she seems to be doing really well. So she she keeps landing up She was she was living in the hotel

Lukuku was in the 11 Howard Hotel and she was living up there and she came down almost every night after, you know, like about nine o'clock, nine thirty to sit down and have a glass of wine. And she was very, very, very friendly with everyone. More true friendly. I don't personally when people are.

Josh Felgoise (31:52.918)

treat you like they've known you for a long time when they've just met you and it's a little bit uncomfortable for me. So I always sort of kept my distance from her. But you know, I'm in hospitality and she'd be there talking, so you'd talk to her and she would tell me that she's, she was working with the owner of the hotel, they were building out another building, it was going to be sort of an arts designed complex and.

She was buying this apartment in Soho. I should come have a look with it with her because it's a great apartment. It's like $3 million. Or she'd invite me to go to the gym with her, with her trainer. None of which I accepted. just didn't, it wasn't, I don't do that on a general basis. And there was something about her that was like, she's very, she was very nice. She was, you know, she was never nasty. She didn't ask for many favors, sometimes reservations. But I just like treated her as a customer and kept my distance.

But she would have her, you know, her retinue would come in with her and she paid for everything and these people would just... I wondered why they were there so much because it was just just boring listening to her talk all the time and like why are you hanging out there? Don't you have other things to do? But because she was paying for everything.

You know, or, well, someone was paying for everything, but it wasn't her. But she was there. And then she, know, she at one point, just more towards the end, she'd ask people what they liked to drink. I drink vodka. Next thing I she sends me a case of vodka at the restaurant. Someone said they like Dom Perignon. They got bottles of Dom Perignon sent to the restaurant. You know, she was always ingratiating herself with the staff. And I don't care to be ingratiated to, it's just not my thing. I didn't, and I would not have.

accepted the vodka, but it was there. of course I did. I wasn't going to send it back, it was- had to, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I guess. I mean, I could have said no, but no, at that point, no. But yeah, so that was her. And then, you know, she, walked into work one day and the daytime major D says, you're not going to believe this, but Anna Delvey left, split on $500 checks. didn't have the money for it. I said, no way. Did nobody go up to the hotel? No, I ended up at the hotel. Next thing I know, she's arrested.

Josh Felgoise (34:02.198)

for a lot of places and spend what seven years in jail I think. Something like that. was a wild, wild story. It was a long time and she's back out there and she's milking it for all she can. Absolutely. Did you have a favorite interaction whether it be with a celebrity or with anybody that you would want to share from any of the restaurants? I've always said.

Great interactions. I love people and I've had great guests from the people that, you know, the couple down the block who no one knows. They're just lovely and they've been my friends for now 25 or 30 years. You know, I've worked in the same neighborhood for a very long time other than the River Cafe, but...

you create relationships and with so many people. The celebrity is always the best, know, they're always fun. I'm older, much older than you and your audience, but you know, the icons of your life walk into the restaurant. know, like Mick Jagger was one and Bruce Springsteen and Rod Stewart, I've gotten to meet all of them. Johnny Carson, who was the biggest thing on television, showed up at the River Cafe one night and this is a guy that...

As a kid, I watched all the time. This person in your living room, that's somebody standing there, that's Johnny Carson. What the fuck? So those things are great. They're so much fun. I've met everyone. Al Pacino, one of my idols, Robert De Niro was a regular at Rose. All the supermodels who have been at all my restaurants, they're always great.

Justin Timberlake and Leonor DiCaprio and all these people, know, Kanye West. I don't know much about him, but you get to meet so many different people. One great story was someone called me at Le Cuckoo and they said, hey, I have an Academy Award winner wants to have dinner with you at eight o'clock. And I said, well, you know, I'm sorry, we're completely booked.

Josh Felgoise (36:07.136)

congratulations on his award, her award. Great. He no, no, no, you understand this person has to come here. He's a great rapper. He's got an Academy Award. He's dying to eat at the restaurant. I said, buddy, there's nothing I can do. I don't have a table, man. I really don't. You know, we're very booked. And I finally hung up on him. Sure enough, eight o'clock, this guy walks in the door and it's the guy I was talking to on the phone. He says, do you have a table? And I said, you know, as just as he said that, I get a call for cancellation on the phone.

week behind him was the rapper Common, who actually did win an Academy Award. So there were the nicest people in the world. know, even on the phone, trying to get the reservation, he was joking with me and what can we do to get the raise? I'll pay you. And I don't, I've never taken a tip that way. Someone said, oh, I'll give you $500 coming for a I won't do that. It's just not, it's not ethical. If you want to thank me on the way out for getting the tip, Absolutely. But they came in and he was great. One of the kindest people, his

written you were so kind and it became regular. and you took care That's really nice to hear, yeah. So, but so many celebrities, you know, you pick one, I've probably met them. When a celebrity would come to the restaurant, would they call in advance or would an assistant call and say that they're coming tonight? 99 % of the time, you knew, you knew. Sometimes someone would pop in and you're like, my God, like Johnny Carson did that night, you know, man. But usually you knew, you know, you know they're coming in. And sometimes you'll have to, you know, get a certain table or.

Like with George Clooney, you've got to get the back entrance ready, you know, so they can come in on the side. So people like that, even politicians too, lot of them come with security details. I remember at the River Cafe, the dictator of the Philippines was Marcos and his wife was Imelda Marcos, who was this notorious, wealthy woman, notorious having like thousands of pairs of shoes and all of this.

they bled the country, but she would come to the River Cafe and she would get a table for her and then four tables of bodyguards. Wow. They would sit there with their Uzis under the table and they wouldn't eat, but she would pay for them, like they were having dinner. So crazy things like that happen. When the governors come in, Cuomo and when Spitzer was governor, but they'll come in with their detail and they come in enough, you get to know them.

Josh Felgoise (38:29.986)

you know, the cops and, the governor's coming in, let's do a walk through, yeah, no problem. And it becomes sort of, know, pretty easy and second nature. And there was that Meghan Markle story too, that no one really knew who she was at the time when she came in. Yeah, I mean, I guess someone did. I certainly didn't. And, you know, they wanted a private room, which we don't have. Then they wanted a private table, which we don't have. Well, can you put us in? I said, well, I can put you in. I don't know who, this woman who was calling said she's coming in with someone that is.

dating someone in the royal family or engaged to someone in the royal family, I don't remember. And nor did I care. It's not, mean, great, good for you. That's great. I still don't have a table. I still don't have a private room. What can we do? I mean, if it was, I mean, it could have been anyone. It could have been who won the latest, whatever, the most recent Academy Award winner. We still don't have a private room, private table. It's not gonna happen. most people wouldn't even ask for that, you know?

if they know that they stop at that point. And this person was so insistent and so obnoxious and had gone through the reservationist, then the head reservationist, finally got connected to me. So I told him, can give you a corner table. And they came in that night and turned out it was Meghan Markle that came in for dinner. And they came early and I said, well, your table's not ready. Well, what are we supposed to do?

Well, you can have a drink at the bar, take a walk around the block. I mean, what everyone else does, it's not, you know, we have smoke. Well, we can't stay at the bar because everyone will recognize her. And meanwhile, Meghan Markle's behind her, doesn't say a word, looked like sort of like a deer in the headlights. And they eventually went to the bar and guess what? No one cared. So yeah, you get you have friends like that, but those are the exceptions. are exceptions. So at the end of your book, you

Talk about the success rates of restaurants and obviously it's not very high. And you talk about wanting to step away from all of this. What's bringing you back with your new restaurant? You know, I stepped away because of COVID. It was a four step away. And so I have not worked in a restaurant since. And I left and I thought I wasn't gonna go back. I thought it was over.

Josh Felgoise (40:44.61)

I'm at an age now where some people decide to think about retirement and all of that. I'm too young for that, but close. And I thought about that and what would I do? And I didn't think I wanted to go back. I was with my daughter. We were having dinner and she said, dad, what are you gonna do? I said, I don't know. says, there's only one thing you can do and that's open checkies, which would be my own restaurant. And she was right. I thought about it and I missed it. I love the restaurant business.

I love the people. love creating the experience. I love setting the music and setting the lights and giving someone a good steak. And so, you know, after three years, you you forget the bad. I guess it's like pregnancy. Well, after women have the first baby, they have the second one because they forgot how bad the first one was. You know, the procedure. You forget the pain. So I guess I've forgotten the pain and I'm opening my own restaurant in the West Village on 13th Street, obviously called Checke's because what else would I call it?

Yeah, it's gonna be a modern bar and grill. It's going, I want it to be the quintessential New York West Village restaurant. I'm an old school New Yorker and I wanna bring back the comfort and vibe of what old New York meant to me and what comfort food was. So the original idea was an American beef stroke. So I wanted to grill American food. And what's American food? No one sits in their apartment and parrots saying, let's go to New York and eat American food. No.

Where do you go? I wouldn't know where to go. But Daniel Rose, the chef of Le Cuckoo, we had breakfast one morning and I said, Daniel, what's an original bistro? What's a bistro? You know, because I love bistros. To me, they're simple and they're my favorite kind of food, pates and duck and steak frites. He said, well, the original bistro was a guy from Alsace who had his mother's recipes in his back pocket, took the train to Paris, found the first empty storefront he could afford and opened a restaurant. So I thought, what is that?

to me or to New York. And when I grew up in Brooklyn, we had a slew of restaurants called bars and grills. And on the sign it said, Steaks, Chops and Seafood. And my mouth still waters when I see those signs, because they're still around. And it was basically that, know, grilled steaks, lamb chops, veal chops, pork chops, different seafood, lobster, simply done, but delicious. So that's what I want to do. I'm recreating that in a, you know, in a real sexy...

Josh Felgoise (43:06.187)

cool, fun atmosphere, environment that's going to be very hospitable, fun, and quintessentially New York. I'm really excited to try it. I can't wait. Gosh, I appreciate it. How will you find somebody that can do the job that you did for so long and be the maitre d'hotel of your restaurant? That's a great question. know, maitre d'hotel is sort of a dying breed. They went the way the dodo bird

once people started hiring hosts for minimum wage as opposed to trying to pay a maitre d six figures. So I actually have found someone who has amazing personality. And the first time I saw this guy working in a restaurant, said, I love him. If I ever open a restaurant, he's going to be the maitre d. So he's coming on board. He's currently working now, so I can't say who he is. But he'll be the maitre d. But I will be there all the time. I'm not going anywhere.

So I'll be greeting my guests and I'll be working the room and all that. But I do have someone those times when I'm not there or sitting with a guest that can really handle it. And he's gonna have his own career that's gonna be pretty stellar. How do you feel about the restaurant scene in New York right now? Like your competition right now? It's interesting because there are so many restaurants that have opened since the pandemic sort of abated. I know it's still going in certain areas.

and still COVID is still with us, but so many great restaurants have opened and also so many bad restaurants. So there's always competition out there. There always has been. There's never been a dearth of restaurants in New York. A lot, I think the figure is 85 % will fail, 90 % will fail in five years, 80 % in three years, something like that. So while there's competition, it's not. A lot of people go into the restaurant business for the wrong reasons.

You know, you got a lot of rich people who know how to make reservations and they like being in restaurants. we can do this and you know, they plunk a lot of money down, open a restaurant and have no idea that it's brutal to run it, it takes, what you have to do, how much time you have to spend being there. You can't give it to a third party to run it for you because you lose all sense of personality. So it's a lot are opening and they're not competition because they're not gonna last, but there's a lot of competition.

Josh Felgoise (45:29.183)

Granted, a lot of that competition is all these new ethnic restaurants opening. know, New York is truly the melting pot. And there's great ethnic food, you know? On any block, you can find so many great things. So I'm not competing with them. I'm doing what I think no one else is doing. So I have very little competition. Amazing. Show me one restaurant in the West Village that has steaks, chops, and seafood on their awning. You're not gonna find it.

So I think I've narrowed my competition down. I've sat over the train because it doesn't exist anymore, you know, the way I wanted it. I'm referencing old New York restaurants that you wouldn't know, there was Mortimer's on the Upper East Side. That was the Cafe Society restaurant, the place of the moment. And what was their special dish? Meatloaf. Who eats meatloaf, right? Who thinks about that? Eman's, that was, you know, a wonderful celebrity spot. The food was never that good, but it had that New York vibe, you know.

writers went there, Woody Allen had a table and this person had a table and it's great. then like restaurant like Joe Allen, which is in the theater district, it's been there for forever. And every major movie star, theater star has dinner there any night of the week, you know? The Broadway show is empty out, half the cast goes to Joe Allen. So those places have these vibes, you know, these great vibes. And I'm trying to bring that back because it's very few and far, it's few and far between now the restaurants that have it in New York.

Definitely. And beside your restaurant, where do you recommend that I or anybody my age goes to eat right now? You know, because of the pandemic and because I work restaurant business, I don't go out that much. I really don't. And when I do, I go to small restaurants in my neighborhood. I don't have the experience in all these new places that are out there. So I'm the worst person to ask that. People ask to me all the time. And I don't have that many. You know, my birthday was in February and I go to Finnelli's.

That's why I have my birthday every year. I love it there. Yeah, and I sit down, I know Sasha, the owner, is great, and I get fish and chips, or their steak. I mean, it's very simple, and that's what I do when I go out. I go to small neighborhood places, Blue Ribbon in SoHo is still, James, the legendary bartender's at the bar there, and you go and you have a Greek salad and have a martini, and I like that, that's what I like. There is an app called Belly that...

Josh Felgoise (47:45.383)

that everybody that I know is on right now that they you when you go to a restaurant you rate it comparing to another restaurant you should check out that'll tell you the whole there's wow okay it'll tell you what everyone thinks of everything right now yeah my god yeah well that you know the social media has replaced restaurant critics for the most part there's the social people on social media have more power than the New York Times these days you know Pete Wells I hate to say that but

It's, you know, it's everything is on TikTok and it's on Instagram and Belly and whatever else there is. And your generation, you guys are on it. You know where to go, you know? And we see recommendations from friends and that's where we find to go. Yeah. Yeah. But I also wish that your generation would just take a moment and really understand what you're going to and what you're eating and look at all the elements of it. Because so many of these restaurants get so trendy because someone said, you got to go, you got to go, you got to go here.

And a lot of times you're in a shitty restaurant and you're not taking the time to understand that. You're so happy to be there and Instagram and wherever you're doing with it that I'm not, I'm trying not to be critical here. just, know that needs to slow down a bit, you know, take a breath, get out of your phones. We all are and open your eyes and see what, what's the food like? What's the service like? Is it because they have this smoky drink that, you know, that bubbles up and it's, it's, it's show it's, but.

Is that what you want all the time? Maybe. And that might be the way dining goes. But I think that you're losing a lot of the true experience. Communicating with your friends, having a cocktail, sharing it, and not worried about that you're in the place of the moment, but that you're in a place that you guys can all be comfortable and be happy and have an experience and share your experiences. What should we look for in a restaurant that will give us that energy or that vibe that you're looking for?

A few things, a few things. Look, whatever the restaurant, and there's so many different kinds of restaurants. There's the luncheonettes, there's diners, there's restaurants in Chinatown that they haven't renovated in a thousand years, and they're great. Amazing. But you gotta go, when you walk into a restaurant, the first thing is the greeting that you're getting. Is someone standing there and saying, hi, welcome, good evening.

Josh Felgoise (50:06.141)

have a reservation or you eat or come sit down. If it's someone at the, if there's a major D stand or a podium and the host is in their phone and the bartender is, you know, standing there and they heard the door open, they'll turn around because they're, they're thinking, I don't know, they're on their phone or whatever. Probably not a place that you want to be in because who's ever running it and was ever there is not spending the time to tell, teach people that welcome your guests, make them feel invited.

You know, is the sidewalk outside dirty? Is there paper on the floor when you walk in there? Do you not get that greeting? Is it an empty dining room? And because whatever the reason, they put you at this shitty little table in the corner because the host doesn't want to walk that far or because they're trying to balance out the dining room with the servers. Well, that's, it's not, they're not putting you first. You got to be put first, not the restaurant. You know, the restaurant's there to provide you with the meal.

to provide you with an experience, to provide you with a good drink. And you're the star, the restaurant's not the star. And if that's, you're getting it at first, it might not be the place that you wanna be in. There was a restaurant right in the neighborhood that I'd never gone to, and it's very busy. And we went, this is actually probably before the pandemic, you have to subtract three, know, these days. And we walked in, we're like, me try it, and it was busy. the people at the door looked at me, well, very busy, it'd be maybe 20 minute wait.

Why don't you go to the bar? At that point, I should have said, I'm leaving because just don't let me go to the bar. Say, why don't you have a drink? know, it's to be about 20 minutes. You know, just talk to me. They weren't talking to me. And then I stood there in front of the bartender and he didn't say, looking at me, didn't say a word. Just didn't say a word. It was talking to someone else, I left. It's just, because I knew at that point, why would I want to be there? You know, and I'm not a snob. I'm pretty easy, easy going. But I know if I'm not going to like it, I'm not going to waste my time.

Definitely. Well, I truly appreciate your time today. It was a privilege speaking to you. I feel like I kind of get to know you after listening to you. I listened to your audio book for a couple of weeks and I really loved it. I recommended it to a ton of my friends. Thank you. And yeah, I mean, specifically being in the scene of New York and interested in restaurants, who knows a restaurant like the guy at the front of the restaurant or the person at the front. And really, thank you. This was...

Josh Felgoise (52:31.049)

such a good conversation and there's really good things people are to take from this. You're welcome. Good luck to you, your organization, your site. I wish you the best with it. Thank you so much. Okay. And I'll see you at the restaurant. Yes, I will. All right. All right. Thanks, Josh. If you liked this podcast, I really hope you did. Please give it five stars and leave a review and send any questions, topics, things you want me to talk about or things that just should be talked about to my email, josh at guyset.com.

J O S H at GUI S E T dot com and I'll be sure to talk about it. shit. Sorry. I think I forgot to say to leave this podcast five stars and our positive review. Thanks again for listening and I'll see you next Friday. See you guys.