High Expectations, Loosely Held: Mindset For Modern Dating

In last week's episode called Ruin the Friendship, I talk about finding the confidence to walk up to a girl at a bar or in any setting and saying hi without feeling awkward, without psyching yourself out and talking yourself out of it for one of the million reasons we tell ourselves as to why we shouldn't do it.

why we're gonna go ruin her night and our own night if we go up there because we're get rejected, she's gonna say no, she's gonna say she's not interested, she's gonna throw a drink in our face, she's gonna laugh at us, like all the million things we tell ourselves as to why we shouldn't go up and say hi, when in reality there is literally nothing to lose. The only thing you have to lose is not doing it and never finding out for yourself if that could have been something, if she was interested in you and.

why we psych ourselves out of it, the mentality we all have going into it and why it's better to just go up and try and all of those different things. And I talked about that for an entire episode because I think every single guy listening right now can relate to that mentality and has been in that situation where they wanna go up to a girl and say, hi, I think you're cute. My name is Josh, to meet you.

but we psych ourselves out of it, we tell ourselves not to because we think it's not gonna work and all of the things. I think every single guy listening right now can relate to that and has been in that situation if not once, if not twice, if not 10, 20 times before. I've been there and I know a lot of my friends have been there, I know so many people who have been there. I've seen it happen to people around me, like it's just, it's such a common thing and I think that is kind of like...

the perfect type of topic for this podcast because it is a guy's guide to what should be talked about and that's something that's not talked about enough or ever really something we don't really talk about with our friends and I wanted to stay on that theme and that kind of similar topic because another something like that came up this week amongst a few friends I was talking to so I want to talk about it of course and that is the expectations we have when dating

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at first dates or going on first dates and second dates or third dates when dating in general in the beginning of a new relationship or a new person. And someone said to me after last week's episode that that really felt like guyset. Like some episodes can be universally applied. Probably most of them can be universally applied to guys, to girls, to people older than 20, to people younger than 20, 40, whatever. Like you get what I'm saying.

And they were like, that episode is really like targeted for guys who were like 17, 18, 19 through like 32, 34. that was really like a targeted episode and it really felt that way. And that's a good thing. And it's good that some of them are catered to everybody. But like that one really felt like what you they were. This is them talking to me right now.

That one really felt like what you are trying to do and what you have been what you have set out to accomplish. Some of them really feel like that and that one really felt like that. And I want to continue that type of thing because I felt like after listening back to last week's episode I was like that is the type of thing that younger me me right now even me in five years even like that is the type of thing that I would want to hear like that is the type of thing I set out to do. That person helped me kind of like

crystallize that picture in my head, but like that is what I have wanted to do from the start of this and I want to make sure I keep doing that and that type of thing because the conversations that aren't happening for guys are like that and are like the one I'm about to have with you today and I'm really excited about that and I want to continue that and talk about the expectations we have

when dating at first or going on first dates and second dates and that timing from the first to like the fourth date. So if you want to go back and listen to that episode, if you haven't listened to that episode yet, if you want go back and listen to that now, maybe pause this and then come back. I don't want to tell you to leave this now because I never want you to leave. I always want you to stay, of course, but I think this might be a good time. If you haven't heard that episode, it was episode 123. It's called Ruin the Friendship.

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to go listen to that one and then come back to this one. Or you can listen to that one after this one, whatever way you prefer. But these are kind of like brother sister episodes. Like this is a sequel episode. I think that's probably a better way to say that, brother sister. Like a sequel, like a part two of that. Because that one was talking about the like walking up at first, the initial interaction. the, I give like a three step kind of framework for.

how to walk up without feeling awkward, without feeling like you're gonna ruin everything, without kind of giving yourself that catastrophic feeling in your head that you're about to ruin literally everything. So that episode I think is an important part to listen to to understand this one, but you don't have to as well. Whatever you wanna do, it's all up to you. Whatever you wanna do. But this one is more like after you've secured the first date,

And you've even gone on the first date like this is kind of the moment after the first date into the second into the third. I also did an episode called 26 minutes of first dating advice or first date advice a little while ago. I'll probably refresh that again because I think that's another really important topic too. So these all are in that same category like I obviously talk a lot about like dating and relationships. I think that's a major major topic that should be talked about. So I obviously want to like make sure that I have every

thing in this appendix and like in guys set that covers anything you might be wondering about thinking about anxious about curious about when it comes to that early timing of dating and I keep learning more as I grow up and as I go through my own experiences too and have new insights to apply to earlier episodes that I've done or recorded and earlier things I've said and I think that's cool and I'm just excited that I

have grown and have new things to say about these experiences. So, um, so this is like the second part of that. And I specifically wanted to do a deep dive into the earlier stages of dating because this thing came up this past weekend when I was talking to a friend. And I'm also, as I said last week, watching the show, How I Met Your Mother, which I think is like the perfect time to start watching that show because I'm 25 years old now and all the characters in that show are 27 and in the first season.

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Which is kind of unbelievable because like most people I feel like watch like I'm 20 years late to this show. Like I'm not trying to like bring it back or anything. But if you haven't watched it yet and you want to watch it alongside me, please feel free to join because I think it is really, really applicable to where I'm at now to where a lot of my friends are at now. And one of my friends was saying how annoying Ted is. He's the main character. If you haven't watched the show, this is still relevant. Like, don't worry, I'm not going to get into I'm not going to like spoil anything. I'm whatever. This is just like a little setup. Just give me a second.

My friend was saying that Ted is really annoying in the first seasons because he's always like, I need to find a wife and this is the one and that's the whole plot of the show. Like he's explained to his kids how he met his mother and in the first season and I'm sure in the next nine seasons, it's like all about his dating life. And I kind of responded like, I mean, yeah, but like that's what being single is like sometimes. Like that's how it can feel and how the urgency around it can feel, especially

when everybody you know has someone and you're on the outside in that and you're the single one in the group or you've been single for a little while, that type of urgency which can seem and can be really annoying to some people is how it feels when you're in that position. And I found myself kind of defending Ted because I was like, yeah, like...

I don't find him annoying in all of that and I more so understand him for it and I think it's like his, for lack of a better word, like his anxiety around finding a girlfriend or finding a relationship because I understood it and I understand it and I've been there before and I was like, I know people like that, like I know people currently who are like that and he was like, yeah, you. He was like, that's...

Not now, but like that's how you were a few years ago when we first moved to New York and I was like, was me. Me. I got kind of a vented and he was like, yeah, like you. I was like, and I it's so much easier to throw stones at other people's houses than look at your own house. If that's the right expression. Is that even an expression? I don't know. Let's go with it. But it's so much easier to like talk about something in terms of other people and be like, oh, like I know that guy when you're talking about something. It's like, no, that's also

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You like that that is also something that relates very much to how you used to act or what you used to say about Every date you went on when you were like, I think this is the one like That tape went really well like date two is coming up. Like I'm really excited about this I think that this is it like I'm feeling really great about it I'm super fucking excited and it is really easy to get caught up in that and then the next week when it doesn't go well or she ghosted you or she ended things because she's seeing somebody else

to get so devastated by that because you built this thing up to be so big and exciting and you're like, this is the one. This is my wife, I met my wife, we're gonna have kids, we're gonna move into a house in the suburbs. I'm gonna have two boys and a girl. No, I wasn't that crazy. I'm kind of hyperbole-ing.

But he was like, yeah, like that's that was you and I just hadn't thought about it that way and and I would be a lot like Ted is being and I think it's I think there's a lot of guys who are like that especially when you're out of college and you see friends in relationships and you see friends moving in with their girlfriends and you see people kind of taking the next step or starting the next stage of life and you start to see people getting engaged and you start to see

These things happen around you and you're like, wait, what the fuck? Am I behind? Like, why don't I have that? And it's then the next girl you see, you're like, that's my wife. That is my wife and she's going to have my babies. And that is my next thing. And like rinse, repeat with the breakup or with the ending of the situation ship or the fact that it ended two dates later and she's not texting you as much as you'd like her to be. And you're texting her so much more. And it's obvious that you're more into it than she is.

And that fucking sucks. it point period end of sentence blanket statement like that sucks. And I want to kind of unpack the expectations that we can lay upon ourselves and give ourselves for it being this like girlfriend situation and how much weight we can put on each date and

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each second date or third date with every situation ship or with every situation too. Because I held my expectations so high for every girl that I met in the beginning when I first moved to New York for the first year or so maybe first two years like I held my expectations so high. I kind of came with like not a checklist because that's not the right way to say it but if for lack of better word like

I came with these kind of things I wanted with each person on every date and I think that's how people start out because like how you don't know any better like you don't start out by being like I'm gonna just like assess the vibes and see like and some people may that that's not me like I'm I was never that person to like be so I was never like a very casual date or I'm not like I'm not a very casual you as you see with my 124 episode podcast I'm not a very casual person.

I like to plan out, I like to make things work, I like to see it through, I like to have things work and I care very much about my relationships and the people I see and the people I spend my time with and how I spend my time and for that reason I applied that kind of same mindset to a relationship or to a date and I held my expectations so high for

every girl I met to try and make it work and try and at least go on a next date or see it through a little bit more and not cut it off because they want to hurt somebody's feelings or I didn't want to make her feel bad or didn't want to make it feel like I didn't want to ghost. didn't want to and I probably ended up ghosting a couple times because I didn't know how to handle it and then it felt like I was ghosting and I texted like two weeks later like hey sorry and she was like what who the fuck are you? you're this guy like I haven't talked to you in four weeks like I don't care that you

Hey, like, I don't think this is gonna work out. She's like, you haven't responded in two weeks. Of course this isn't gonna work out. Shut the fuck up. Get out, like, get out of here. And I wanted to make things work and I wanted to also like squeeze people or squeeze someone into like a box that I had created if that makes any sense. if you're dating, if you're going on first date, second date, it's like, I'm sure that makes a lot of sense to you. And if you're not,

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that may not make a lot of sense. Everyone's got on a date. That's what makes sense. And I was trying to make it work even if I didn't think it would or it was feeling like it wasn't going to. Like I think it's really easy to tell ourselves a lot of things as to why it maybe isn't like, she's busy with work or oh, she has this, she's going, she's, her phone's down and like, no, come on. Everyone's phone's not, everyone's phone's up. Like everyone is always on their phone.

Everyone's phone is within reach and it's charged and it's ready to go at all times and like the popular thing to say is like if if he wanted to he would if she wanted to she would like and that's true in a lot of respects in when it comes to like the first beginning of dating like I'm not talking about a blanket statement like if you like no I'm talking about in the beginning like if the person is into you you'll be able to know and if you're into them you'll be able to know and it's it's

pretty simple, but we kind of create this whole combobulated like reasoning and line of thinking as to why they're not responding or why this is why, why you feels like you're putting in more effort than she is and why maybe she's putting in sometimes for her putting in more effort than you are. And you're like, like I'll respond when I want. And you know what I'm talking about? This is a two way street. Like it's, we all have the times where we're more into it than they are and they're more into it than we are.

And you know when it's not gonna work. And that's like the truth of it. Like if you think deeply enough about every situationship or every relationship you've had, like you know when it is working, when it's clicking, when it feels like it's good, and you know when it's not. And as I said earlier, there's also this pressure we place upon ourselves when we see our friends in certain scenarios and we compare ourselves and we start playing that comparison game. And we also know in our heads that

It's not just going to happen. Like, it's not gonna happen unless you try. And if you don't, it's not going to just plop into your lap. And by it, I mean your girlfriend, or like a girl, sorry, it, that's not the right phrasing. But it's not just going to happen, and you have to make it happen. Like, you do have to put the effort in in order to make something happen, in all cases. And I also don't think it's going to

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just simply happen if you're trying so hard to make it work. Like, it might for a second and then soon after you'll realize that no, that wasn't right because I was trying so hard to make it work and I was trying to squit, squit, squit. I was trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, pause. Squit. I...

think there's so many, there's so much to unpack here and I think I could take this in like six different directions from where I've even started. But I still wanna stick with the expectations that we have and that we give ourselves and that we tell ourselves in this early kind of timing of dating. And what I'm talking about now with trying to make it work, I'm sure you've also been here before too, like.

I'm sure you're either thinking of somebody else you know right now that you are like, this person is doing that currently or they are in something like that, that like it's not as good as, or if you think about it and stop throwing pebbles at the other people's houses, like, and you look inside the calls coming from inside your own house, like you've been there too, or you are in that right now. And that's totally fine. Like it's totally okay. And I've been there too. And like,

Like it is not a bad place to start because what else do we know? Like how else do you learn? How else do you learn that this isn't going to work anymore? Because I can't keep getting so devastated with the outcome of the date because I thought it was going to it was going so well and I thought something different than than maybe I that or I thought and I hoped that this would work out differently than the way it actually is.

And you have to learn all of this on your own. Like, each person individually has to go through this and move through this to get to the other side to realize that like, I put so much pressure on making this work. I put so much emphasis on in my head in making this work and held such high expectations of this relationship where it's been a couple dates, one, two, three dates. And I am now so devastated again.

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and I was here last month and I'm here again and now I'm feeling really like bad about myself because of the outcome of this. And that's not a bad place to start, but it is a bad place to stay. Because after enough of those disappointments and letdowns, like maybe that's a sign to change something up and try something different. Like maybe that's a sign to you that I'm doing something

I wanna do something a little bit differently. You're not doing anything wrong, but I wanna change something up. And I think that starts with your mentality around going into the beginning stages of dating. Like I think it's important to have high expectations about what this could potentially be and what this could turn into sometime, but loosely hold those high expectations. Like I think it's important to not hold such a tight grip on those expectations and

think about all the other alternative things when it comes to those early stages. Like I'm not saying to go through life and dating with no expectations and drop everything and think I'm gonna go on this date and like have no feelings about it. I'm not gonna catch any feelings. I'm not gonna do this. I'm not gonna like, I'm gonna try all I can to not catch a feeling to not be excited about this because like what the fuck would that be then? Like if you're not getting excited about anything then like what's the fun in all of that? And this is supposed to be fun.

Dating should be fun, but it's not always and there's a lot of the time It's not at all like that's just the truth of it And I think that's the truth of what it is like in our early 20s late 20s Maybe even early 30s late 30. I can't speak for anybody that's above me and in my age But I'm sure this relates to you, and I'm sure you might be here right now too like I think that

It's important to have high expectations and loosely hold them, loosely hold the high expectations. Like, I don't want you going through with nothing, like no expectation. And I also don't want you having to feel like you need to shield yourself from all disappointment and all let down because that is literally impossible and that's no way to live and

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You're going to be let down at times. You're going to be disappointed at times. Like that is just a part of our everyday life. And it is a part of what everybody has to go through to get the other side. Like you can't have the good without the bad. And you should have high expectations for yourself and your potential and your life. But when it comes to dating, I think it's important to keep those expectations really realistic, especially knowing all you know or all that you now know. And what I mean by that is in the beginning,

You don't know each other. Like, you're just getting to know her. You don't know her at all. You don't know her middle name. You don't know where she's from. Like, you know nothing. You guys don't know each other at all. You're trying to get to know each other. That's the whole point of the beginning stages of dating. And at this same time, when you were first seeing her, I think you have to think about all the other things that could be at play right now. She could be seeing other guys. She could be on...

the tail end of a long term relationship breakup like she could have just been getting out of a four year breakup. She could be texting her ex right before this date and right after this date. She could be getting back together with him a week later. She could be going on a date after this. I hope she's not because that fucking sucks right before this. I also hope she's not but like if she's maximizing her time and has no other time to think like you never know. Like I've heard people do that. I could literally never do that. Like I could

There is not a scenario in which I could go on one date into the next like I would mess up the names I would be like, didn't you had a turtle right and she'd be like, no, that's not me That must be your other girlfriend and I'd be like, oh ha ha like it literally I would literally I could never do that. I could never even date really two people at once It's just it's too hard for me. I'm but I'm I know there's so many people that do that like and that's not a bad thing It's it's very normal. I think a lot of people go on more than one dates in a week or in two weeks most people I feel like go on

more than one date with somebody in like the span of two or three weeks and are seeing multiple people at the same time because that's what dating is. Like you're testing the waters, you're testing it out, you're seeing what it's like, you're getting the vibes, you're getting the feels like, and I think it's important not be so fixated on the fact that this could be all happening, but I think it's important to remember that and not build expectations so high that the castle crumbles every single time like

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I think that it's important to remember that all of these things could be at play. Like, you really don't know this person at all yet. And the purpose of the first two, three dates, four dates is to get to see the vibes, get to see how it's going, meet them, get to know what they like, what they don't like, and all of the shit in between. And same for you, and you should...

be kind of thinking about how you feel around her. Do you feel that spark? Do you feel that fun energy? Is this do you feel good around her? Do you feel like yourself around her? Do you think that same thing for her? That's kind of all of the like later analysis you can have in your head or in your walk to work or all of the things when you're texting her like, is it a fun conversation? Do they feel like you're pulling teeth like all of that? At the same time, when it is going really well, I think it's like

I don't want people and I see it so often and I've done it so often and like when I'm saying I see it like I see it for like that myself I'm looking at myself and I see it. I've seen it with friends. I've seen it with Everybody has seen this type of thing where you build your expectations so high and you're like, this is it This is the one the Ted Mosby. This is Mosby. Is that his last name? Hold on Ted Mosby how I met

Yeah, Ted Mosby. The Ted Mosby of the, is my wife after one or two dates and it's going so well. And I also, and this isn't, again, to say, like, don't get excited about things. Don't be excited. Don't like, don't clip that. Don't, don't say, don't be excited. Be very excited, but understand all of the things that could be at play and that until you get to the point where you have the conversation of like, hey, I'm not seeing anybody else because I really like you and I don't want to be seeing anybody else.

She has that back and you're like, okay, like this is pretty solid like I feel really good about it about the way this is going like all of that stuff could still be at play and I think Again, you really know and you have to use your best judgment and and the vibes of the relationship to know How it's going and I think you can feel how it's going before that conversation happens Like I don't think you have to explicitly say those words to know that it's that direction after the first

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Four or five dates because you know if you don't want to be seeing anybody else and I think you can probably tell by the way that she's talking about you and and talking about seeing you next and making plans and The way that she's also feeling about this, too So I'm not saying desensitize yourself because that would be really bad. Like do not do that at all costs because as a self-proclaimed helpless romantic like I Did that and I still do that

And I see myself a lot in Ted. Like I do a lot of what he did by jumping to the conclusion of like, this is it. Like this is the one. And that's why coming from me, I think it's so important and why I'm saying to keep your expectations at that surface level and at that kind of like ocean level and not jumping ahead or making these grand conclusions in your head about what this is before you really know what this is.

So don't be a Ted and think this is the one and say I love you after a first date because I've felt that way before as crazy as that sounds like I've seen myself in a minute like, this is I think I love her. And I don't know. Maybe you've had that same way too before, but like keep that down here because you don't really know her yet. You don't know anything about her yet. You're just getting to know her and getting the sense.

getting the senses and getting the vibes. Like, you can't shield yourself from all disappointment when it comes to dating. dating will come with its inherent disappointments. the purpose is to meet people and not everybody's going to like you and not everybody is going to want to date you. like, that's just, that's the name of the game. Like, that's what this all is. And nothing is always going to work out.

especially when you're putting yourself out there so many times on a continual basis. Like you are shooting your shot like in mass, like you are going up to girls and places, you're sending messages online, you're talking on hinge or whatever your preferred app is, probably hinge, right? I don't know, Tinder? No, come on. You're shooting your shot a lot and that's going to come with disappointment because

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Not everybody is going to take that shot, you know? So, don't tie your entire self-worth to someone else's approval of you. Mic drop. I think I should end the episode there. Don't tie your entire self-worth to someone else's approval or acceptance of you. I think that's...

Probably the thesis of this episode and the most important thing I want you to remember in the early stages of dating There's a police car. They're coming for me. They realized just how good that line was and I'm getting arrested for it They really were like that is it this podcast is going to do numbers And we need to arrest him And

There's more cars. There's so many cars coming because

They called the entirety of the NYPD. They were like, everyone get the fuck over here. We have a problem. Somebody has just said the most important thing that has maybe been said on this podcast. What can I say? There's not much more to say. I have a couple more things to say when the police sirens go by because I feel bad that if you're in a car, if you're driving, there's no police behind you. They're behind me, not you. Don't worry about it. You're doing everything great. Keep your eyes open.

Eyes on the road. Don't fall asleep. Don't drink and drive. As I was saying, don't tie your entire self-worth to someone else's approval or acceptance of you. And look at this for what it is. Dating in general, dating in the beginning. It's an opportunity to meet somebody new. A chance to hopefully make a connection. Not somebody to share your life with right this second. not somebody to be texting and calling all the time.

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But hopefully very soon down the line in a few weeks or in a few months, this becomes that. Like, you don't want to be going into the date by being like, this is the person I'm going to spend the rest of my life with. this is my wife. You don't want to be doing that because then you're placing these incredibly high expectations, it's really high pressure on this date, first of all, going well and on the connection and on the responses and everything after it.

being really great too. And you don't even know this person, like you don't know if that's going to be the case. So you're really kind of just setting yourself up for disappointment or a letdown or kind of failure for lack for yeah, like if you do all of that, if you set all of that for yourself, if you build it up to that, you're kind of setting yourself up for failure. And when I started to lower my own expectations a little bit, I was so much less anxious about

trying to make it work and trying to fit that square peg in a round hole and trying to make this what it was supposed to be because I had this expectation for what it was supposed to be. Like when I stopped doing all of that, it started to come so much easier. It started to happen so much easier. And I could also read the signs and the situations so much better because I was reading and thinking about what was actually happening.

at that table or at the drinks versus all of the things that I thought were supposed to be happening or I wanted to be happening or the expectations I had for what should be happening and what I want to be happening. Like when I started getting, when I started lowering all my expectations and started lowering my feelings about what this is supposed to be and what I want this to be, like I actually started to understand what was in front of me and how I felt and how she felt and how this was going and,

could actually see what was happening because I got out of my head and into here. And I understood the vibes better because I wasn't blinded by an expectation.

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So I hope you can apply that same mentality and that same kind of foresight into your early stages of dating, your first few dates with the next person you see, the next person you date, and have that kind of high expectations, loosely held mentality that I'm talking about.

or even dropping all the expectations. Again, not dropping all the feelings and everything that comes with the excitement of dating, but dropping everything you think it's supposed to be because in your head you had it framed in a way. Like, it's going to look so much better when you actually get out of your head and into the date and into your life and into what this is and you can read it all better and understand it all better. And I hope you can apply the same thing too. And I hope you can apply this too.

Because I know when I did it, everything felt better. All the puzzle pieces just fit together. It looked like an actual picture instead of trying to squeeze all these puzzle pieces in and it looked like this like really discombobulated picture of nothing. And the full picture actually came when, oh, I liked that. It didn't go anywhere with it, but I wanted to. This puzzle reference that I just built. It didn't land, it didn't land, but I wanted it to and I hope you know that I wanted it to.

Um, you get it. Thank you. That is the episode. Thank you so much for listening to puzzle thing just didn't land. I'm upset about that. I really I had this grand ending. I didn't even plan it just happened. now and that's how the best things go. That is the episode. Thank you so much. Listen to guy set a guy's guide to what should be talked about. I'm Josh. I'm 25 years old.

And I'm here every single week, every single Tuesday to talk about what should be talked about for guys in their twenties. If you liked this episode, I really hope you did. Please like subscribing to this podcast. Five stars review. That's one, two, three, four, five stars, not four on three, two, one, five stars. Thank you so much. I really, really appreciate that. If you have anything to talk about that should be talked about for guys in their twenties, head over to my website, guyset.com, G U Y S E T.com. And there is an ask me anything submission box right there. It goes right to me. You can ask anonymously. You can put your name, whatever you want.

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Ask me anything, anything you think I should talk about, anything, any questions you have, anything that's going on in your life. And I will do a full episode on it just like this. You can find me on Instagram, on TikTok at guysetpodcast. You can watch this full episode on YouTube at guysetpodcast. And there are weekly blog posts. Every single day you can find new blog posts on things that should be talked about for guys in their 20s, lifestyle, wellness, dating, style.

It's kind of like a younger version of GQ with a lot of the topics I talk about here just expanded upon there. And I'm so, so excited about it. So check that out, guyset.com. Thank you so much. Listen to guyset, a guy's guide to what should be talked about. And I will see you guys next Tuesday. See you guys.