How To Write Your Story with Robert Bailey

This week I am joined by author Robert Bailey. Robert has written 12 books and his newest book, The Boomerang, came out on May 1st. I read it last month. I told him I finished it last week, but I actually finished it like the day before this interview and I absolutely loved it. I think it's really, if you're looking for like a thriller book, if you like that type of book, if you like an adventure, something that really keeps you entertained and gripped.

throughout the entire read, like this is the book for you. If you haven't read a book in a while or you wanna get back into reading and kinda wanna like suspend disbelief and just take yourself out of this world and into another completely different world and go on this like chase mission and not know what's gonna come up next, like this is the book for you. think that's, I don't know what I just said, but I think it was a good review. It was a good review, I really loved it. I told him about that during it too.

In this episode, we talk about how he became a writer and the start of his career and how he got to where he is today. We talk about his writing process. We talk about imposter syndrome. We talk about his advice for starting out your career. We had so many technical difficulties throughout this interview that he ended up just calling in and I held up my phone to the microphone for the entire time. And I think it worked out okay. And I hope the sound is just as good as I hope it is. But I'm

just to let you know that is what's going on here. It's me holding up a phone to the microphone and then me balancing back and forth, like going to the microphone, putting the microphone to the phone. Like it was kind of a mess. And then I spilled my protein shake on the floor during it and everything that could have gone wrong went wrong during this interview. Beside for the conversation, it was a really great conversation. So without further ado, please welcome Robert Bailey to Geissex.

Josh Felgoise (02:11.165)

I finished your book, The Boomerang, last week and what an absolutely thrilling ride. It is so good if you like books that you cannot put down and you just don't know what's gonna happen. This is the book for you. It is so entertaining and just such a fun read. So I highly recommend. Did you know that you always wanted to be a writer? I think that I really started wanting to be a writer when I was in college.

I'd always loved to read and always loved stories. And the more I read fiction, you know, the more I felt like I wanted to give it a try. took a creative writing class my last semester at Davidson College and really enjoyed it. I wrote four short stories, which were probably terrible, but I got enough good constructive criticism on it, positive comments that I thought there might be something there.

The idea for my first book kind of came when I was in law school, about the professor, just decided to give it a shot. And it's just been an incredible journey. How did you get your first book published? So I kind of went through the steps of how do you get a literary agent? And back then, I got my first publishing contract in around 2012.

You know, they, I just checked the reference books about, know, how to get a literary agent. And I've, you know, looked at the different things that people were wanting and checked the backs of the books, acknowledgements for writers I admire that wrote in similar genres for their agents and wrote a query letter to, I think I queried a hundred agents and 30 of them ended up asking to read the book. And I ended up choosing Liza Fleisig. And once I have Liza on board, she helped me get the book published.

How did that process work for you? Was it hard to decide who to go with? Did you face a lot of rejection along the way? Or it sounded like it worked out pretty nicely from the start. There was a lot of rejection. The first time I tried to get an agent, my book was way too long and I didn't realize it was 800 pages, which nobody, my wife read it but nobody else would have.

Josh Felgoise (04:34.442)

you know, I figured that out pretty fast and then I, you had to revise the book and then when I got to the point where I'd queried 130 S to read, you know, we ended up getting offers from two agents and I ended up going with Liza and then, you know, then Liza goes out with it that's another, you know, it took me about a year to get an agent. It took me almost a year to get a publisher because we heard no so many times along the way.

ended up getting a break, know, lisa asked me to go get a blurb from a famous author, which was a fun process and Almost all of them said no, but winston groom said yes, you know, he was the writer of force gump and did not know him but he He sent me a you know, really nice message saying he'd be glad to read it and a week later I had the blurb that ended up dying the cover of the professor and and then one of the publishers, you know told me that so there that he would take another look at it if I made

some changes to the story which sounded was kind of frustrating at the time but I sort of looked over the ideas that he had mentioned and they were I thought they were good ideas so I took three weeks and incorporated some of those changes in the story and we went back out with it and of course you know he said he did exactly what I wanted you to do but the answer is still no but in the next round of submissions we got our offer so so yeah it was a very very long and kind of windy process and

you know, grateful to wear, you that we're on the other side of it. What did you say to the author of Forrest Gump that got him to want to agree to read your book? Like, what what was the message that you shot out and how did that work? I basically sent him the same query letter I had been sending. I'd sent agents. I just sort of tweaked it a little and told him how much I admired his stories.

you know, put a little Alabama flavor into it because he's from, he was, you know, he lived in Fairhope, Alabama. And I don't know, I was just a lucky break. You know, he responded, a lot of the authors did respond and that I reached out to and said they'd be glad to, to read it once, once it was published, but as an unpublished writer, it's almost impossible to get a blurb. And so that was a tremendous break for me. That's amazing. Yeah.

Josh Felgoise (06:50.6)

What I guess what do you recommend as somebody that's reaching out, trying to get a sort of break, whether it's for a new job, whether it's just reaching out to somebody in general, like what did you do that you think stood out? Was it that like personalization you added? What would you recommend? I think a lot of it is just persistence, know, writing and so many other endeavors. know, I tell aspiring writers that it's the land of a thousand nose.

And no, but it really only takes one yes sometimes to change your stars and.

You know, for me, those two breaks, one of which did seem like a big break, Winston's Blurb and then the other break, which didn't seem like one, which was, make a few changes. You know, it really came at a nice time for me. you know, so I just tell aspiring writers especially to just be persistent and don't be afraid to ask for what you want. You know, you just never know what somebody will do for you unless you ask them.

and

it's really important to do the work, you know, to show up every day and write because the only way to get better as a writer is to keep writing and, you know, Stephen King's book on writing to me is kind of the Bible for aspiring writers. It's what I read before I started writing the professor and just very freeing, very, you know, you would think a writer of King's level would be, you know, would have some magical formula that you have to figure out to be a published writer. But what I was

Josh Felgoise (08:25.616)

most impressed with about his advice was how practical it was and how he basically said anybody can do this. do have to have some talent, but it really is about reading a lot and writing a lot and sort of getting out of the way of the story. And the only way to do that is showing up every day and doing it. And so that's what I would tell people.

day, do you have a particular time of day you write? I want to hear all of that. So typically now, know, you know, originally as a practicing lawyer, I wrote about two and half hours every morning from about four, four thirty to seven before work.

and then I would go to work and we had young kids. That was really the only time I could do it. That has evolved some since becoming a published author. You know, my law practice sort of organically started cutting back as we became more successful with the books. And so now, you know, I retired as a lawyer last year and so I'm a mediator now, but the mediation practice is a lot more synergetic with writing and it doesn't require quite as much time. And so what I do now is typically,

I'll write in the morning from 5.30 until about eight, and then I'll take a little break, eat some breakfast, and then I'll have a mid-morning session that can last from, nine until one or two. And that normally kind of wraps it up for me, four to six hours of focused writing. I reach a point of diminishing returns, especially when I'm early in a draft. Now, when I'm really rolling and I'm past two-thirds of the way of the book, a lot of times I will keep going because just like

you're reading a book and you don't want to stop when you're writing a book and you see the end it's the same feeling it's almost better it's the most natural buzz i think i've ever had is you know knowing where i'm going being so checked in and you know dialed in with it that's when it's really fun to me but it's not very balanced you know it's when it gets to that point you know i i have a very understanding wife and actually i just kind of let her know this is going to be kind of an all-night deal for me and so so it is

Josh Felgoise (10:41.52)

is kind of, it's very structured until sort of almost the end and then it gets a little crazy at the end when I'm getting close to the end. How long does it take you to write a book? Like how long did it take you to write The Boomerang, your most recent book? So The Boomerang, the first draft took about three and a half, four months.

The Boomerang is a different book for me because the idea came, you know, after my wife and father went through cancer. You know, the idea started in around the 2017 timeframe and it sort of percolated for a long time with me. I wrote the first 50 pages in synopsis years before I actually wrote the full book. And so I had a little bit of a head start with it, which in some ways was good. In some ways it was kind of like, sort of, was hard to get momentum going again.

So, but I think once I started back on it, took about three, four months to write the first draft. And then the developmental edit part is another two months where I work with an editor on story and different ways we can tweak, change, add, subtract, you know.

That's a fun process. I enjoy that process. It really does make the story a lot better. And then it takes another two months to copy, edit, and proofread. So at the end of the day, somewhere around nine months is sort of from beginning to end for me now. And then it goes to a publisher, and then they do advance review copies. And so the actual story doesn't get published for another.

eight or nine months too, so. Take me behind the scenes of your writing process. Like when you sit in front of the computer from whatever time it is, if it's six to eight or after breakfast and you have that like second writing session, are there any things you do to like prompt your writing or how do you get started? does it just kind of come naturally to you? Whenever I finish a session, I'll always write in big bold letters, all caps, you know, pick up here. You know, let's.

Josh Felgoise (12:42.562)

finish this scene and move on to, you know.

whatever, like the next scene that I'm thinking of in my mind. So in the boomerang, you know, let's finish this scene between Lionel and Eli, and then let's go back and see what Fonzie's doing on the investigation trail, you know? And so I'll know kind of in the heat of the moment, this is where I was thinking I wanted to go. So that when I come back in however many hours, I know this is where I'm supposed to go. I'll read maybe just a paragraph or two, maybe a page of what came before to kind of give me a little run and start.

I might tweak something unless you know, obvious typo, but I really try not to rewrite at that point. And then, and then I'll just go and, and I'll hopefully go until I reach a good stopping point. You know, sometimes life checks in, you get a phone call or you get a distraction and you know, you have to stop there. But I always try to write a few notes about where I'm going to go the next time I sit down so that, so that that can help.

help the speed of it a little bit. What is the most difficult part of the writing process for you?

I think for me now, Josh, it's really like, you know, the boomerangs, my 11th book, I'm working on the 12th one now. And I just have a lot.

Josh Felgoise (14:03.032)

better idea now for when it stinks. When it's not where I want it to be. And I'm very like hard on myself. I you know, the one thing as a writer, if you've written a lot of books, one thing you don't want to hear is, it's good, but it's not as good. And so I'm sort of going up against the standard that I have for these other books I've written. And it's hard to follow books. And then boomerang is a book that took me a long time to write. It's got a lot of emotional terrain in it. For me, I wanted to

it out and it's hard to follow that story. And so I'm struggling now. I want the next one to be great too. You know, and I had the same thing after I wrote the Professor four books, you know, going on to both Cephas Haynes, you know, wanting them to measure up. And then it was really hard when we got to the Jason Rich series, because that character was so different than Tom McMurtry and both Cephas Haynes, know, such a different type of character, not nearly as, you know, morally sound. And then and then in this the boomerang was

you know, you know, more of a political thriller, a little out, same wheelhouse, but a little different story. And so just wanted it to be good. And, you know, I think when you've done it a while for me, the ones it's easier, I feel like I'm a better writer, but I do recognize when it's not quite the way I want it more now. And that's the hardest thing for me is to make progress and know and get to the end when I know it's not quite the way I want it and just trust that I've done this before I can go back.

find it, you know, it's a fossil somewhere and I'll uncover what needs to be uncovered to make the story the way it needs to be. But there is a bit of imposter syndrome that never goes away as a writer. And I'm brambling now. But one thing that always gives me comfort is there's a book out there called Chronicles of the Grapes of Wrath. And it's the journal John Steinbeck kept when he wrote the Grapes of Wrath, one of the greatest books that's ever been written. And he talks about all the doubt

he has about the story and how the he's listening and he hears the painters next door and he can't concentrate and he's worried he's never going to get this book published no one's going to read it and it's so comforting to hear go through the same stuff that you know just a writer like me goes through you know it just

Josh Felgoise (16:20.782)

It's, don't, I think some of those challenges are sort of universal to be a storyteller. And so for me, the more I do it, the harder I am on myself. And that is, that can create some blockage. But once you push through it, it's so rewarding to really feel good about it. And so.

I really felt good about the boomerang. I can pretty much say for all my novels, by the end of it, I felt like I really nailed it, you know? And so that's the hardest part for me is pleasing myself really with it. I'm really interested in what you just said about imposter syndrome and working through the emotion of kind of like leveling up and, you know, measuring up to what you've previously done.

How do you actually work through that? Like, I'm curious to pick your brain a little further about that. And what do you do when you're facing like a block or writer's block or that kind of imposter syndrome? How do you actually work through that? For me, what's, you know, what's helped along the way, know, movement helps. A lot of times I'll take a walk.

You know, sometimes when I'm really struggling, I'll talk out of seeing with my wife. She's a very good soundboard for ideas and that can be helpful to me. And you know, it's...

There's this there's a common Alabama guy so you know we're college football world coach Saban and there's a quote coach Saban talks about and he says the the illusion of choice and where you you think you have all these choices as a young person when you want to be a great football player and I think the same thing could be said for anything would be great at anything it really takes what it takes you can't just program it I'm gonna write for six hours and at the end of those six hours it's gonna be perfect and it never works out that way because it takes what it takes

Josh Felgoise (18:13.336)

you get to the end of the six hours and you're like well I'm not quite there or you have another idea and you think well I should should go this way with it and so one of the great things about

You know being a published authors. have deadlines and deadlines create urgency and force you to make choices And I do think sometimes when you're putting everything that you have into something And you will have a deadline and you are forced to make a choice I do think sometimes in that situation the urgency of the moment makes you choose better and at least as a writer it does and so that has helped me just

Sometimes, you know, just sort of like surrendering to the urgency of the moment and just doing it, like get out of my way and just finish this story. The very best I can. It's always better than you. You know, it's never as good as you think it is. It's never as bad as you think it is. You know, and then let it sit a little bit, come back to it, read that draft. mean, I think the fact that it gets vetted so much, you know, it goes through a first draft. You know, my book now, I was able to write a whole first draft. Now I'm working on a second draft before it goes to

publisher that's that's rare normally I just send the first draft and so I've made some changes that I think that I think make the story better but I mean it's still not quite where it needs to be and so the hard part sometimes is sending it off to the editor and saying I'm not quite satisfied yet

But here's what I'm thinking, can you help me with this? And sometimes having somebody that's experienced and knows the writing world, the brainstorming of that can prompt another idea or can maybe be reassuring, hey, I really like what you've got here. And so I do think there's a, you battle these inner demons of confidence and wonder if you've really nailed the story. Is it gonna seem realistic? Is it gonna resonate with readers?

Josh Felgoise (20:06.256)

going to buy the premise, you a lot of those questions, you know, came in with the boomerang because it's a big topic. It's a conspiracy. It's you know, you've got a lot going on and you know, you have all these doubts, you know, are readers going to buy into it? Are they going to are they going to go along with his family on this on this chase to try to save the daughter's life? Are they going to get into what the characters are really dealing with? You can we get past some of the conspiracy stuff to what the book's actually about?

And so what I want it to be about. And so I think that the urgency of deadlines helps a lot for me. And I do think that just by continuing to hammer that nail, you know, showing up every day and working it and not being satisfied, you know, it does, it does help. You know, I think that just knowing that you're working and knowing that you're trying, do feel like if you, for me, at least I reach a point where I feel like I've left it all on the field, you know?

fun and I feel like if I can get to that point where I feel like I've left everything I've got.

you know, then I can walk away from it satisfied because you're not going to satisfy everybody. mean, the Boomerangs reviews right now. Great, but there are a bad ones. mean, you know, the bad ones always hurt worse than the good ones feel good. And so that's just part of it. You know, you're never going to please everybody. It's very subjective thing. So I feel like if I can be satisfied, you know, that I've written a good story that's an escape, that's going to be a great beat tree that people are going to enjoy that.

settings and the characters and go along for the ride, then mission accomplished. And so that is, I try to be little easier on myself once I feel like I've put everything I've got into it. Yeah, and I think what you said in there too about not getting in your own way or getting out of your own way, a lot of us struggle with and not just in our creative practices, but in our daily lives too.

Josh Felgoise (22:06.136)

think so much about the output we're giving or what we're doing. And it almost like we almost spend so much time there that it can be too much time there. And like showing up every single day. And I really love what you said about showing up every single day and proving to yourself that you're laying it out on the field and laying it out on the line. Are you writing every single day? Like when you say showing up for yourself every single day, are you making sure that you're doing something creative and productive every single day to

to get your craft honed in? That is the goal. I don't always get it. A lot of writers say they write on Christmas Day. I don't know that I've ever done that. We took this trip.

You know to Arizona to begin the book tour and like I tried to write some on the airplane and I did you know and I it was so successful 30 minutes it didn't really write many words but I did have some ideas and was able to jot some stuff down to work on that counts too. For me, you know, I think that I do my very best to do that and I do think that you have to have a very like healthy respect for momentum because if you go away from it for a few days, it is so

hard to get back into it. One of the things that's made it easier for me since since leaving the practice of law is you know the law is one of those professions that when I'd have when I would have

depositions or trial, I really did have to step away completely from the writing for a few days. It was always so hard to come back to a story because it had gotten cold and stale in my head. the respect for momentum helped me a lot in writing the book I'm writing now. And also with the boomerang and just some of the more recent stories, I was able to finish them a little faster because even if you just write a couple of paragraphs or

Josh Felgoise (23:56.482)

you know, a page and you just never know, you know, you'll sit there for an hour and 45 minutes and nothing will happen. And then you'll write a little dialogue or something. And the next thing you know, you've gotten a three page flourish in 15 minutes. I mean, and so it's the process of writing is it's a performance thing. And so you don't just get to clock out and be like, well, I did it today. And so.

I have tried to remind myself that just show up, like I'll, you know, my to-do list now, it used to be, you know, write 1000 words. Well, that results oriented process got me so tied up that, you know, I was just thinking about 1000 words. Now, my to-do list is like, you know, morning session, know, mid morning session, afternoon session. And so if I check those three boxes, normally I'm going to get more than a thousand. I might get 2000, but I'm not thinking about a thousand, you know, like, you know, like if,

You know if you think about breaking 80 you're always going to be around 79 or 82 But if you think about you know playing as well as you can then maybe you'll have a breakthrough But it's you know I think sometimes because if it's it's performance oriented if you get so tied up with the results of it Then it's it can be very frustrating and so I really try I still have the goal in the back of my mind But you know I feel like if I check those boxes I'm gonna reach it a lot quicker than if I have the box

only as a thousand dollars or 1500 or whatever. I don't know if that makes sense, but it has helped me a lot. Yeah, no, it absolutely does. I think like a couple things you've said so far, like setting that goal for yourself, creating that deadline for yourself, and kind of like setting up these ways to make your goal a reality are all really resonating. So I totally understand what you're saying, and that makes a lot of sense. How...

Is there anything you do like when you get writer's block or when nothing is kind of working creatively and it just doesn't feel like anything's hitting in those moments, like beside taking a walk or are there any things you do, any rituals or habits you've developed that get you going again? Sometimes I'll change. Like I will go down to a coffee shop and set up my computer. I might.

Josh Felgoise (26:14.346)

want a little background noise, a little different setting for the writing. You know, as a writer, really do, it does help to write in the same place every day, but you do as just a human being, you travel, you bring your computer with you, you try to set up. One of the...

examples I give is I was watching the state golf tournament. My son was on the golf team. They're playing state championship. We traveled from Huntsville to Auburn for it. And I, you know, I got in there a little early to write and my son was playing his practice round and I was in the hotel. I had the perfect setup to write and I couldn't write a single word. Like I was completely blocked. Like I was so frustrated and angry with myself because I could be out on the golf course and I, you know, I was set aside this time to work and I

and got anything done. And finally, I just gave up. And I'm right as I'm about to walk out of the hotel room, I bring my computer with me, I go down to the hotel, like there's a pool area, sit down, you know, I eat lunch, I even have a beer, you know, and I read a little bit. And then I look at my computer and I'm like, well, let's try it, you know? Yeah. What could it hurt? You know, and I write a little scene and then for three hours, I go into this 2800 word, you know, sweating because it's hot, you know, couple of emotional scenes, get teary eyed. It's just

this beautiful moment that I can't explain it. I just changed settings, got out of my, probably just got out of my, took the pressure off a little bit. So I'm more abstractly about.

the story, I read a little bit of something completely off subject and I went back to it with the idea of let's just see if we can't write a few words. Really low expectation. And the next thing you know, 2,800 words happening. So that's one example of how changing the setting of where I was writing helped. I do think having a synopsis helps. I have a really loose like four five page synopsis that kind of is a roadmap for the story that normally has the beginning and ending fairly well.

Josh Felgoise (28:15.408)

out the middle is more is more vague but that helps a little sometimes especially if I've taken a dirt road too long you know I can go back and think well this is where I said I was heading so maybe we should go back and do this yeah

And sometimes journaling helps a little, just writing some notes longhand about what I want to do. But I have found that changing the setting sometimes of where I'm writing will every once in a while sort of unblock me. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. How has your life changed since writing this book and becoming an author? Since becoming an author in, I guess, the 2000s.

12 time a published author, you know, I found my first publishing contract at the very end of I think 2012 and the book first book came out in 2014. It's been an evolution of being a wannabe author to be in like a published author. And now I really feel like I'm a professional author. Like this is what I do for a living. And it really has been an evolution. I feel a lot more confident now in

you know the fact that I can finish a story all the way to the end you know the end is the two most important words for any writer nothing ever comes of your work unless you reach the end and for me that those are still my two favorite words and I still get such satisfaction from finishing a story and finishing and I still kind of reward myself a little with the you know a good beer or pizza or what's eat meal or something because I want to have a little pat on the back for myself for doing that and then you know you

go back and try to tweak it and revise it. I think that I really love being a writer. know, something that, you know, I wanted to try when I was in college, but by the time I was in law school, you know, I really did want to be that. And so it's very satisfying to like kind of live, you know, be living my dream. And I get such great pride, you know, from hearing from readers that have enjoyed the story and, you know, been inspired by the different stories.

Josh Felgoise (30:28.016)

stories that I've written and you know love going to book events and talking to readers, getting messages on my Facebook and social media pages that the story resonated with them and so that always makes me feel good and I just think my life has changed because I've gone from like wanting to be a writer to being one and living the life of an author which you know is not.

is glamorous maybe people might think it is. Right. It's I mean it is.

It is fun. You know, it is very mobile. You know, my office is pretty much wherever I am and which is neat. I like that a lot. You know, I'm able to travel to this book signing. You know, we're going to have one tomorrow at the Poison Pan in Arizona. And I'm here at this hotel room and I can work. know, I was working this morning before our call. And so, you know, it is kind of neat to be able to do that. You know, I think a lot of people do that now. The world's gotten more mobile across the board. But for an author, that is a neat thing.

It's allowed me to enjoy practicing law, but now I'm able to write full time and I'm a mediator now, which is a fun thing, helping people settle their cases. It's like that rare happy moment in civil litigation. And so I'm able to do some of that too. And so it's good, but by the same token, there is a performance aspect to it. And so I really want to keep writing good stories.

you know, keep raising the bar. And so for me, that's that's never going to go away. You know, if I ever never want to turn in something that I'm not really proud of. So how do you part ways with a book you've written? Like, how do you now move on from the boomerang and on to your next thing and separate yourself from that work you've created? It's hard, you know, like I said, it's hard to follow some books. And I think that for me, it's just

Josh Felgoise (32:26.112)

It is easier in some ways now because I've written, I've done this, and I'm writing my 12th book now. For me, the hardest book that I ever wrote.

in terms of just getting to the finish line was the second book, you know, like I guess the first book took forever because I was learning to be a writer, but once the professor was published, you're writing between black and white was a real chore because I wasn't sure I could do it again, you know, and and I and I think for me imposter syndrome was greatest at that moment and getting past the book too and getting it, you know, good reviews for it and moving on to the third book and now I'm kind of on a book a year

And so I do think there is a certain like you get used to your routines and your structures and I know like I'm gonna get to the end of my deadline and I'm gonna say I'm gonna ask for a little bit of an extension because you know, I'm not quite there and you know, I'm a lawyer and you know, I know I know how to get an extension And so that's kind of part of my process too I think the publisher even recognizes that and they build in a shorter deadline because they know I'm probably gonna need a little extra time and so that's

of the process for me is to get stressed out, need a little bit of extension. And then I'll get the first draft done. And then going through the developmental edit is hard because you have a couple of times you turn in the book and you know you're not quite there, but at least your work, you're collaborating with somebody. And so that's helpful. And then I think what happens to me is by the time we get to the proofread at that point, as much as I love the book, I am a little tired of it.

And so I'm exhausted by it. And so I think that there's exhaustion set in and you're like, I've done everything I can do now. It's time to see if the book will fly and be, you know, pleasing to readers. And normally along the way, I will come up with the idea for the next book. know, sometimes it's almost a procrastination thing where I'll start thinking of another idea. I'll jot a few notes. I'll get excited about that. And then I'll have to come back to the current story, you know. And and so that has been my

Josh Felgoise (34:32.631)

process now for, I guess, 12 years. it seems to almost be a routine now. We all come up with the next story idea, and then I will write a synopsis for it in the first few pages and send it off to the publisher and kind of get an agreement on it, and then we'll roll from there. In reading the author's note at the end of the boomerang, I know this story hits really close to home, and you talked about it a little bit in the beginning.

Can you share the synopsis of the boomerang and kind of like how much of yourself you put into this book? So the synopsis of the boomerang is basically the chief of staff to the president. His name's Eli James. You know, he is a, you know, he's the main character of the story. has a daughter and he's in kind of an estranged marriage.

And his best friend is the president of the United States, Lionel Cantrell. Lionel has a recurrence of his colon cancer at the beginning of the story. That's kind of a secret, only Eli knows about it. And so they think. And anyway.

Lionel starts to get better with his colon cancer because he's given the boomerang, which is the cure for cancer. And that's something that you know from the beginning of the story, that there's a cure for cancer that the government is hiding. They give it to Lionel because they're scared of the vice president. And Eli doesn't know any of this, but meanwhile his daughter gets cancer also. And he starts having all of the feelings that you have when someone you love gets a terminal illness or an illness that you're afraid of, cancer. And he and his wife kind

to together to figure out what they're gonna do. And there's a lot of desperation and a lot of angst and a lot of anger and a lot of those emotions were my emotions when my wife went through cancer at 40 years old and non smoker and was diagnosed with pretty much the same cancer that Bella James has in the story. My dad had terminal stage four lung cancer.

Josh Felgoise (36:35.502)

and he did not make it. He died after 10 months from diagnosis to his death. And my wife's curative surgery was a month after my dad's death. And so they were treated at the same time. I had a front row seat to two different cancer battles.

that informed a lot of the emotional terrain of the story. All of the steps that Eli and Bella and Dale walk along the way, those are steps that I walked. And particularly some of the inner chapters where they're in the waiting room when they're going through the trials, the desperation that you feel and the hope that you would like to have, but don't have.

A lot of times is things that I felt and so in the story there is hope because there is this cure and Eli figures it out and he blackmails his best friend to get it and then he and Dale and Bella flee to the deserts of New Mexico where they come under the protection of this John Dutton type figure. He's kind of like John Dutton meets Tony Montagna meets Michael Corleone, you know, this criminal overlord, kind of bad guy that...

know, Nestor Sanchez is kind of a bad guy that gets to be a good guy in this story because the government's afraid of him. And, you know, Eli, because he's a powerful figure, you know, he's able to broker this truce with this bad person to help them. And so it sets up kind of this.

You know, thriller meets neo-western, the publisher pitches it as Grisha meets Yellowstone, which I love, you know, because I'm a huge Yellowstone fan. That was kind of the idea is to sort of have this showdown over the Cure in New Mexico. And my wife grew up there. so there is some definitely some personal antidotes in the story. Some of the family, my step family members that that Dale James has in New Mexico based on family members of my wife. And so a lot of personal, you know, elements to the story for me that

Josh Felgoise (38:32.4)

made it emotional to write. And I think that for me, I think that some people might say that the boomerang is a pessimistic story because the government is hiding something. And based on the reviews that I've gotten so far on Goodreads and other places, I think a lot of people believe stuff like the boomerang is happening. But I think beyond that, to me, it's a hopeful story because wouldn't it be wonderful if there was a boomerang and that,

that it was out, even if it was being covered up. I think that it's hopeful because if you're a cancer patient and the only chance you have is surgery. And my wife was able to have surgery and she was cured. My dad was too far along and it spread and so he wasn't.

I mean, that's what you find out along the cancer journey is there really all this money being spent and all these treatments, but at the end of the day, if you don't have a surgical option, it's just, you don't really have a chance. And so I wanted to envision a world where there was a chance.

and that there was this conspiracy and you know, heard that the conspiracy set out in the boomerang is what you hear when you're in waiting rooms. What I heard from other patients' family members while I'm waiting for results from my wife, from my dad that are gonna impact my life. All these other people are doing the same thing and what you hear is why isn't there more and there probably is, but they're hiding it from us. And whether that's true or not, a lot of people think that and talk about that and I think wish so badly that it was true.

And so I think it was, I just felt like it would be a good fodder for a thriller story that would, at its essence, be about a family trying to save their daughter. So that was a long answer to your question, but it was that the emotional part of the story for me was dealing with this family's coming to grips with their daughter's illness. And then, you know.

Josh Felgoise (40:34.542)

having a chance, know, going out and having a chance. And, what would you do to save your daughter's life? Well, you would do anything. And that's what Eli does in this story. So. Yeah. And I think outside of being such a fun thriller and such an entertaining read, really for the last, I don't know, 150 pages, I couldn't put this book down. There's so much heart in here. And I like what you said a lot about the hope that it can give people because

whether or not the conspiracy is true or whether or not people believe the conspiracy, it's kind of fun to suspend your disbelief for a second and just put yourself in that world. And I think that's really fun. What do you hope readers take away from this book? I do hope that they take away, I mean, anytime I write a book, I hope they're entertained by it. I hope they're inspired by it. For this particular book, I feel like, I hope that they are sort of,

transported to this fictional world and take this ride with the James family and I hope they're inspired by it. I do hope that.

that they feel hopeful by the ending of story. And that, you know, I do think the folks that are impacted by cancer, and I feel like almost everyone in the world at some point is impacted by it at some point. I do think there is a message of hope in the story and seeing another family deal with the same emotions that so many people feel. You know, I don't think I could have written this story.

you know, if my family hadn't gone through that. And so, you know, I think that that will resonate hopefully with people who have also experienced it. And I do think that there is kind of a fist pump when you find that in the story there is something because so many of us know that there's not. And so I think that that that message of hope is what I hope most that people take from it. Will there be a part two of this book? I would like that.

Josh Felgoise (42:37.138)

I I think that there, I certainly left some meat on the bone there at the end for Boomerang part two. And I think that it would be neat to explore a sequel in a few years.

and just catch up with the landscape and what was left afterwards. Because one of the fun things about writing is setting up a universe. And then when people really buy into it, being able to continue it, and now you've got this universe, characters that people care about, and you get to show them what the next chapter is. I think that's just as exciting for me as a writer as it would be for readers.

So I hope we get to do that. And I could really envision this book as a TV show or a movie. Would you ever kind of give over like the rights of the book to make that happen? Of course, yeah, that would I would love that. You know, always a very cinematic, you know, when I in my approach to writing, I think about think visually about how a story is going to look.

I think this book would be a really fun movie because you've got like the chase aspect of it. There's a lot. It happens in a short period of time and particularly at the end, the visual scenes there at Sandia Peak with the showdown. I think that would be great on a movie screen. yeah, that would be exciting. Absolutely. What are your favorite books or a book that you would recommend to me or anybody listening to read?

You know, I read so many books, you know, it's hard to say, you know, I love Michael Connolly and I like everything he's written, the Bosch series, the Lincoln lawyer.

Josh Felgoise (44:17.358)

Renee Ballard, know, all of those different ways sets up California and so many of those books now have been made at a TV series and movies. But I think he's wonderful. You know, recently, you know, I read a man called Oh, by Frederick Bachman, you know, which is the book that a man called auto was based on. And it was so wonderful, you know, I cried several times during the book, you know, reading it. And, you know, so I think that those books were great. Maybe a

quite as mainstream but getting there you know. S.A. Cosby's book Razorblade Tears is one of the best books I've ever read. One of the few times I've read a book three chapters in and had professional jealousy over the setup and the situation and just the way he writes. Very good. Eli Craner's book you know he's got several Southern Noor books that are really good and I am the the titles are

escaping me right now, but his latest one is the broiler. everything Eli writes is really good. I love Sandra Brown too. She's one of my favorites. Her book Envy was one of the books I read early on in the process of learning how to write. The first chapter of Envy is such a great setup to a story. so I think I could go on and on. I I love to read. And so there's so many of them that I like. Those immediately come to mind.

is the book by Eli Craner that I really liked. And so anyway, those are my wrecks. Have you gotten any great advice from mentors or other authors or people in your life that has really impacted your career or your mindset? Advice from other writers, I think...

You know, Stephen King's advice in on writing, you know, that is so simple that it almost sounds patronizing, you know, read a lot, write a lot. You know, if you want to be a great writer, read a lot, write a lot.

Josh Felgoise (46:21.738)

is something that has resonated with me ever since I read it. It was so freeing because I had read fiction, but I hadn't really dived into a lot of fiction. And so that was almost like permission to read everything. And so after I read his book on writing, I read whatever I wanted to read without judgment. So I read the Harry Potter books. I read the Twilight series because it was hot then and I wanted to figure out why. I read

And you just learn so many things. For example, know, JK Rowling, you know, one of the things King says about her books is that she does backstory better than everybody else. And if you read the Harry Potter books in the first chapter, she basically explains everything that's happened before in about three paragraphs in an exciting way that doesn't take away from the story. And it's just a wonderful like teaching aid for how to do it. So, you know, I just, felt like that was great advice. And then,

I,

In terms of like in-person advice, I can't really think of any like, you know, advice I've gotten that you learn so much by hearing other writers talk about their process, you know, and also by just reading something that really works, you know, like for me, Lee Child's book, Killing Floor, it's the first Reacher book, you the first chapter of Killing Floor sets up the character of Reacher that's now gone on to 30 books and a TV series. But if you read the first chapter,

of killing floor. It's the best first chapter of any book I've ever read because it sets up the character, the situation, who he is, and immediately draws you into the conflict because he's about to be arrested for murder. He's in the diner, he's drinking coffee, he's eating eggs, and it's all happening. you you get the whole character, you know, and the whole, like, what's about to happen in, three pages. And it's impossible not to keep reading. And so I think that I've learned the most from other writers by reading their stuff.

Josh Felgoise (48:23.286)

And so that's, and I still learn a lot from just reading other people's books in different ways that other authors get to things. that's, you know, I think that's kind of the way it's been for me. And Robert, what is your advice for your younger self?

My advice for my younger self, wow. If I could go back in time, I would just tell my younger self to maybe relax a little bit more and be a little bit kinder to myself. I feel like this is gonna be okay. I'm kind of a worrywart. so I feel like...

When I was just aspiring to be a writer, you know, I think that, you know, if I could hear for myself, I would, think it would just be, hey, you know, keep going. But also, it relax a little and enjoy the journey. And so because I do feel like sometimes I struggle with that, you know, so so wanting to check the box that I, you know, I don't quite enjoy the journey as much as maybe.

is maybe I could. Yeah, I love that advice and I agree and I feel that now even in my young age, I feel like I sometimes worry too much and I could take that reminder too a lot of times. thank you so much for doing this. I really liked this conversation. I think that if anybody is looking for a really fun, entertaining book to read that like this is your book for this summer, I think what you said about it being a beach read is

like the perfect read for any guy that's looking for an adventure book, just something to really like take you out of reality and into this really awesome world you've created. So I loved the book. I am so happy to have had to talk to you today and that we made this conversation happen. And is there anything else you want to add before we before we wrap up? Not really. I just thank you for the opportunity to be on the show. I enjoyed the conversation a lot to Josh and.

Josh Felgoise (50:45.528)

I appreciate you reading the story and I'm glad that it hit home with you. That is the episode. Thank you so much. Guys that a guy's guide to what should be talked about. I'm Josh. I'm 24 years old and I'm here every single week, every single Tuesday to talk about what should be talked about for guys in their 20s. If you like this episode, please subscribe to this podcast. Five stars. That's one, two, three, four, five stars, not four. And once five stars. Thank you so much. I really, really appreciate that.

If you're in the way, somebody should be talking for guys are 20 cents my email. It's josh at guys.com j o s h at gu i s e t dot com or to my dms at the guys at th g u i s e t on Instagram or any other social media platform. I answered all of them. If you to check out my sub stack, it's guy said on sub stack. You can check out the website. It's guyset.com gu i s e t dot com for so much more for the news edition of the guys at magazine for so many blog posts I post for everything. It's all on that website. Everything you want to know or everything you want to see is all right there. I talk about

lifestyle, dating, career, success, insecurity, wellness, health, fitness, health, I said health already, relation, everything. I talk about everything on there, everything that you've been talking about for guys in their 20s. Thank you so much for listening to Guy's Set, a guy's guide to what should be talked about, and I will see you guys next Tuesday. See you guys.