The Body Image Conversation Men Never Have with Ryan Winter

Speaker 1 (00:00.398)

Welcome to Guy's Set, the guy's guide to what you should be talking about. I'm Josh, I'm 23 years old, and I'm here to find all the tips, advice, and recommendations for guys in their 20s. Let's get into it.

Speaker 1 (00:17.912)

Hi guys, welcome back to Guy's Set, the guy's guide to what should be talked about. I'm your host Josh and I am so incredibly excited for you to hear today's episode. Today's guest is Ryan Schumach and after we recorded the episode, I immediately was like, this is one of the best episodes I've done and will probably do for a long time. It absolutely embodies exactly what I'm trying to do with Guy's Set. We talked about so many...

topics that guys don't talk about and should be talked about for guys. I initially wanted to have Ryan on to talk about his sense of style and fashion. I found him through TikTok and Instagram where he has over a hundred thousand followers on each platform. He's just huge on both. And I've loved following him and I reached out and asked if he'd want to be on. And he said yes, which was so cool after I've been following him for about a year and really just like love what he does on

on socials. And this conversation was just so far beyond what I expected it be. Not saying that I didn't expect it to be great, but I just, it was so beyond what I had hoped for it. I initially thought we were just gonna talk about fashion and style and his modeling career. And we got into like everything that I hope to talk about so much more in the future. And we just broke into it right here in this episode. And I

couldn't really find a way to break into a lot of it. Talking about body image, eating disorders, a lot of the things that are widely talked about for girls in our generation in this demographic, but not for guys. And we got into that and Ryan was so open and honest and willing to talk about all these topics. And I'm so grateful for him for opening up about all of this. I guess fair warning for anybody who...

maybe triggered by any these topics that they are going to come up in this episode, I will put in the timestamps when they do come up. For me, these were topics that I think need to be talked about for guys in their 20s. And Ryan was just the perfect guest for what I'm trying to do and what I am doing and what I will keep doing on this podcast and with guys said in general. So one fun fact before we start, if you ever go and buy the Calvin Klein underwear,

Speaker 1 (02:41.142)

You will most likely have seen Ryan on the he's like the model on on the underwear, which I think is a crazy fun fact. And I would use that forever if that was my fun fact. It's never to be my fun fact. If you've seen me, that's it's not possible. But if you've ever seen those boxes, you've seen Ryan and now you're about to hear from him. If you want to check out Ryan on Instagram, his name is R.S. Winter on Instagram and then on TikTok, he's young yung underscore fontina F o n t i n a. We talk about why that name is

soon in the podcast. yeah, if you want to check them out, there you go. Also, this is a very long episode, but the conversation was just so good. And it just went on and on and I'm never going to stop a good conversation. But there is good stuff throughout the entire thing. So stick with it. And there's a lot of like the outfit stuff and style tips and shit at the end. So if you want to skip around, the timestamps are all below. But yeah, it's long, but it's worth it. Also, if you are listening to this podcast on Spotify or somewhere where you can follow or subscribe,

Please do that because it just helps the numbers and it helps push the podcast and I would really appreciate that so I can do a lot more cool shit like this. Okay, so without further ado, please welcome Ryan Schumacher to GuySense.

Speaker 2 (03:58.414)

take a sip of something.

Go ahead, let's see.

It's a little ASMR-y, but I think it's okay. Okay, I'll get it. It'll be legal. It's fine. It's all good. How you doing?

doing alright today, how are you?

Yeah, I'm good. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks for doing this. I found you through TikTok. You're on my like for you page, I'd say like a year ago probably. And then I started following you on TikTok and Instagram word. And I thought you had a crazy good sense of style. Something that I don't have at all. But I always try to. But we'll get into all like the style questions that I have. I have a lot of questions for you.

Speaker 1 (04:37.134)

But yeah, it just seemed like you like knew how to pair things well and you just somehow know what to do. So so yeah

Okay, I appreciate that, because I don't know what I'm doing.

honestly, we can start. No, we'll, we'll, we'll, I want to hear about you first and then we'll get into that. tell me about you and why you started on Tik Tok and your business and everything. Yeah.

Okay. so Tik Tok really started as kind of like a three-dimensional chess move. in that, do you know, Marcus Milione? I don't actually know how you say his last name, but the guy runs minted New York. Honestly, given, the things you talk about on your podcast, he would be someone that would be really good to talk to. Okay. Yeah, for sure. But he is someone I know through modeling. and he actually, I think he worked on like wall street. I don't need to make this about him, but anyway. Yeah.

really nice guy. And so he has his company minted and part of minted is like there's clothing and then there's like minted health where he does supplements and stuff. And then as part of like a community building thing, he does the minted run club. And so they just go on runs and it's sponsored by his company. I just went on one of those like, why not? And then this was pre-Sweet B opening, but post Sweet B being a company. So like

Speaker 1 (05:48.642)

This was when, by the way.

Speaker 2 (05:56.686)

during the build out, this was probably, I can tell you it was September, 2021. And so I went on the run, I didn't even, I like messed some stuff up where like the address that they had, they told us to meet at Little Island, but like the address wasn't actually Little Island. And so I went to where Google maps told me to go instead of Little Island and I said, well, fuck it, I already commuted from Brooklyn.

Okay.

Speaker 2 (06:25.09)

I guess I'm to go for a run over on the West side. Yeah. Start running. I'm like done with my run. All of a I hear, Hey Ryan, it's Marcus and the crew. And I'm like, Hey, how's it going? So I started hanging out with all of them. And then Marcus goes, bro, you've got to get on TikTok. And I'm like, why? And he's like, you're starting a brand or like you're starting a company. You need to be there. It's like the platform is designed for growth. There's no reason you're not, you shouldn't be there. was like, was like, what do I do? And he's like, just post.

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:49.218)

percent.

Speaker 2 (06:52.856)

three times a day for a month. And I was like, that is too much. I probably won't, but. Low and behold, like a couple of days later, I test positive for COVID. I'm locked inside for 10 days. And I'm like, all right, well, I guess three times a day is totally fine now. I've got nothing else to do. And really, so that was a really long winded story of basically just saying like, I've been working in fashion for.

That's a lot. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:22.11)

Seven years now. I've been in New York for seven years. 30. And so, yeah, I moved out here right after college on a modeling contract. I've been out here modeling. and I've always been into clothes. think like I grew up into like in punk and skateboarding and hip hop and a bunch of different stuff. And like fashion is like an integral part of all of those subcultures. Like you show the world that you're into those things via the things that you wear and like.

Okay.

Speaker 2 (07:52.748)

So that type of like, just understanding how you communicate to the world through the things you put on your body is something I've been like experimenting with my whole life. But in a very like...

Cool.

Speaker 2 (08:09.354)

non-professional way. It's always just very like fun and, and, and serious. So my thinking was I've, I've always been like, well, I like clothes and style and fashion. And I think I, I think I'm cool. And the things that I do, like, like I think they're cool. That's why I do them. Right. but I was never taken as seriously in the modeling world. And so TikTok was sort, I'm actually getting totally off base. No, Yeah.

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:36.503)

I was gonna ask you about modeling. This is cool.

and so basically, sorry, I just cracked my toes. was probably, on. Yeah. so anyway, I was kind of like, well, if I can get people into whatever I'm doing, or if there's a market for what I'm doing, then like the merch I make for the cafe, I don't want it to be like, here's my company's logo on a t-shirt. want it to be more thoughtful than that. want it to be something where.

giving them all the ASMR today.

Speaker 2 (09:08.994)

people who have no idea who I am, people who have no idea about the cafe might see that shirt or that whatever it is that I make in the world and be like, I love that. Where's that from? Like I always wanted it to be more than just here's my logo printed on a cheap blank t-shirt. Yeah. And obviously like it's still merch and I know that I'm like quote unquote a TikToker now, which is weird.

Yeah,

Speaker 1 (09:26.742)

Merch, right.

Speaker 2 (09:34.683)

So buying anything from me will probably always feel like merch, but how do I like elevate it beyond that?

Well, I think the elements of the cafe adds in adds another whole layer to that. So go ahead, though.

Exactly. Yeah. So really it was like, it was sort of a three-dimensional chess move around like, if I can get people interested in me, I can get eyeballs on the cafe and that's good for business. And eventually I'll release merch and I want it to be cool. And if you rock with me what I'm doing, then you'll buy my whatever the fuck I'm selling. Right. And you don't have to live in Brooklyn to buy a t-shirt. Like you can order that from anywhere in the world.

Yeah.

Where like the cafe itself is like, you need to kind of live nearby if you're going to support it regularly. And you know, it's been amazing how many people have made the trek that deep into Brooklyn when they're like visiting New York from all over the world. Like I've had people from all over the world. It's actually insane. like,

Speaker 1 (10:29.208)

to come see the cafe.

Yeah. Wow. I would never do that for anyone I follow online. Like if I'm keeping it real, like I would never do that. I don't give a shit about anyone I follow online enough to do that for them. And so when people do it for me, I'm like, what the hell? Like that's crazy. Yeah. And it's cool. And it's been like so fun to meet people. And so, but like, and every sale helps, especially when you're a new business in the service sector, you're not making money.

And so like, it's amazing to have those people come and to show them the cafe and to, you know, meet people that follow me online. But it's like, what actually keeps our doors open is our regulars, you know? And what will also help keep the door open is like, if people are interested in the things that I'm creating. And so how do I create something interesting enough that people care? so yeah, that is a super long-winded story, but basically I just started TikTok to

bring attention to the cafe and then it sort of transitioned from that into being my primary source of income because the cafe doesn't actually pay me any money. And so it's like one day it will hopefully, but like that's a long-term play. so TikTok is sort of functioning as that intermediary, like liminal space between modeling and the cafe being able to support me. TikTok has sort of like filled in that gap.

Right.

Speaker 1 (11:57.006)

Cool, so I want to ask you about modeling and the cafe, but first I want to say as someone who's followed you I can kind of tell you why I think that people make the trek to come see you So have you heard of the thing called a parasocial relationship? Do you know what?

Yes, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You feel like you know people more than you do. Yeah.

Right. And I think like TikTok especially has like given you like, or given us as, as people that are following or given you as a follower of something like a glimpse into your life so much more than you would have if, if you just knew you as a cafe owner. So, I mean, seeing you get to like, like try on new clothes and tell us about your life and the building of the cafe. Like we've become a part of it in a way. You know what I mean? For sure.

And then like you want to go visit that. I think it's very cool that people come from all over. I trekked to go give you the mic and was like the coffee was great. First of all, vibe was awesome in there and it was far. It was really far from me, but it was cool. Yeah.

Especially like, you know, like I live even further in brook into Brooklyn than the cafe, but like I'm off the express train stop So it actually takes less time to get to my house Even though it's further into Brooklyn Then it does to get to the cafe because you need to sit on the local train through all of the stops through like lower Manhattan downtown Brooklyn Exactly We're like for me. It's like express train. I'm out here. There's like I'm like three stops in you know, like it's so much easier

Speaker 1 (13:08.672)

and whatever. exactly. That was my trick.

Speaker 1 (13:19.008)

Yeah, yeah. go ahead. So how did you get into modeling in the first place? How did that all start? Was it like from college? just started.

Sorry. No, that's it.

Speaker 2 (13:28.238)

Right from there? So the story behind that is it was sort of, I like was sort of a chubby preteen kid, is like, you're hitting puberty. You want girls to like you or you want, you just want people to like you, whatever you're into. You want people to like you. And we live in a society where I think like thinness is valued. Right or wrong.

probably wrong, but it's the world we live in and as a 13 year old in the Midwest, like you don't have the cognitive skills to think beyond that. And so it was always a thing where like, think I was kind of like, and then I hit puberty and I don't know, I thinned out and girls liked me and it was cool. then,

you

Speaker 2 (14:21.024)

So I sort of realized like, if I want people to like treat me well, I can sort of like get that validation. think that I seek through presenting myself in certain ways. And then I started working out and then it became a thing where after I worked out, like, I'm from Minnesota and I, by the time I was in college, I was working for

the government painting lines on roads, like for the department of transportation. that was my summer job and we worked for 10 hour shifts. So I had Fridays off and I also got paid on Friday. So I was like, it. Let's yeah. So, but I would go to the, like the mall of America on Fridays and like, I just got paid. Let's see what's up. And it was a thing where like, every time I went to the mall of America, someone would be like, do you model? Can I take your photo? Whatever. And I was like,

Wow.

Speaker 1 (15:00.994)

Get paid to work out,

Speaker 2 (15:15.79)

It was weird, but like cool and flattering and yeah. And so it was a thing where like it kept happening and I kept being like, you know, I don't know. I was like, I was going to school for environmental science and I was like, I don't care about that. I don't care about that validation. I'm this environmental that's so shallow, blah, blah. but I was dating a girl at the time who was from North Carolina and she was like,

It hasn't happened to me yet.

Speaker 2 (15:45.582)

dude, just do it and then use the money so we can hang out. And I said, that's a good idea. And so I met with a modeling agency in Minneapolis. I got signed in Minneapolis and I, I, I started modeling like, guess officially like my senior year of college and yeah, so that's sort of like why I started or how I started. then I got done with school and

My dad is actually from New York. And then I came out to New York with my mother agency from Minneapolis, because they were bringing some girls out to New York to get signed here. And they're like, come if you want. And I'm like, OK. I was done with school. had no idea what the hell I was doing. I had no plans. My only degree-specific work experience was a job that my college girlfriend, her dad hooked me up with a job at his medical firm doing some environmental stuff. And then, so like,

But we had broken up. had no, I can't like use him as a reference. So I had no like degree specific work experience. had no idea what I was doing. And I was like, well, you know, I'll go see what it's about. I'll like just go meet with agencies and if nothing else, I get a long weekend visiting my family. And then a couple of different agencies were very interested in me. So I was like, all right, I guess I'll make that happen. I wasn't really planning on going. I was kind of afraid. And then I went home and my mom was like, Ryan, you need to do it.

She's like, when I was your age, like I wanted to start this company with my friend. We wanted to like produce in Mexico. Like we had this whole idea. We wanted to do everything. And she's like, I played it safe my whole life. I lived at home until I got married. Like, go do it.

That's really fucking cool that you had her support there, wow.

Speaker 2 (17:31.608)

Yeah. And I was like, all right. So I came home, I packed my shit up. I moved to New York like 72 hours later. Wow. My dad rides motorcycles. He was out at Sturgis motorcycle rally. I didn't, like I didn't even say goodbye to him cause he was gone. I just like, packed my shit up and left and went to New York and now it's seven years later. I had no money. had like $300, which doesn't go far in New York. so yeah, it was just like a spur of the, like I wasn't planning on doing it, but

I had nothing else to do. This opportunity presented itself and I have my family support. So I just jumped.

Wow, that's a really great story. Have you found it to be that validation that you were kind of seeking?

you know, I think, I mean, yeah, I think I probably wouldn't have tried my hand at modeling if I didn't want that in some way. And like, I know that probably sounds bad or shallow and I, but I also think that's like a weird, like Midwestern Catholic school way of thinking. Like, it's okay. Like I can both seek validation and still be a good friend and like be a good son and like,

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:44.334)

support people in the ways that are like emotionally validating and fulfilling and so like I'm constantly trying to like pull myself out of that like very like puritanical mindset. No, you, yeah, jump in.

Yeah, yeah, I go ahead, sorry. mean, I feel like when people look at models, it's a very like 2D, like you really don't know anything about them and that you see, you don't really see anything from them. You see that they went into it for either like, or think they are getting validation out of it. The same reason someone posts on Instagram to get likes, like that type of thing. I mean, it's nice to hear that it's both sides there too.

Right. Well, even like speaking of going into with like a weird, you know, puritanical mindset, like, so like my real last name is Schumach. It's not winter. okay. and so winter is my mom's maiden name and it's easier to pronounce, easier to spell. But really the reasoning behind that was like, I thought I was going to come to New York for like six months and then go get a quote unquote real job.

I was surprised when I emailed you by the way.

Speaker 2 (19:50.798)

And I didn't want my modeling photos showing up when prospective employers Googled my name. And for me, that was like my own.

I don't know, biases around like, people have all sorts of preconceived notions about what it means to be a model. People think models are dumb, vapid, whatever. And so I didn't want people to be like that when I was trying to, you know, get a job that had benefits and,

view me.

Speaker 2 (20:26.504)

Now, you know, it's been seven years and I'm probably never going to work in an office. And I've also changed my tune around it. It's like, actually, I'm so proud of what I've done with my modeling career. Like I've done so much. And I think like, I've sort of unlearned so many of those things that I came to New York with. And it's like, some of the people I met in modeling are the coolest people I've met, the smartest people I've met, the most creative driven people. And it's like, you know,

career.

Speaker 2 (20:54.574)

you can't really survive, especially as a male model because you make so much less money. Like you kind of can't survive for the most part. There are very few models I know that can survive purely on their modeling income. And so everyone is doing like 10 things or they have a side hustle. Like everyone's doing something really cool.

I don't really know anything about that industry. Could you give a little bit more into it? If you can, transparency into how much a model gets paid to do something?

Yeah, I mean, so it depends, like there's different rates for everything and then different companies pay different amounts of money. And it's also like very often, like the thing that you think is like so cool actually doesn't pay much because it's good for your career. And you can almost, but it's like, bro, I live in New York. I can't pay my rent and clout. And so like, like, I don't know if this is true because I've never been like an editorial magazine person, but I think you make like,

Got it.

Speaker 1 (21:44.521)

Right.

Speaker 2 (21:51.982)

500 bucks to be in vogue, know, like you hate nothing and then like you know, I work I've worked with some clients and So there's but basically it's like there's ecom money, which is shit but consistent and then there's campaign money, which is really good but inconsistent and then You know like sometimes you get paid for an editorial, but you really so seldom do you

Thank

And so like when you're seeing those cool editorial photographs, it's like, they're cool, but really what's that? What that's about is like building your book so that you can go to clients and show them that book and then they pay you to do, you know, whatever. and so like, and then it also depends on like, when you're shooting e-comm it's like, is it recognizable or unrecognized? e-commerce. like the photos you see on a website with models, whatever.

What do mean by ecom? Sorry

Speaker 2 (22:50.092)

So like, I used to do Calvin Klein's underwear, Ecom. And it was like from the nose down or from the neck down or whatever. And so they could pay me less money than if my face was visible. So it's like, if it's visible, you make more money. And then I stopped working with them, but like they changed their website and then it was recognizable instead of unrecognizable. So then the rates went up for those models that started doing it after me.

Yeah. And so it's just sort of like, depends. It depends on what you're doing. It depends on the client. It depends on usage. so yeah, it's, it really varies. And then it's like, well, you really want his campaigns. You want to be the person on the billboard. You want to be the person like doing whatever, like that's where you make more money, but there's only like a spring summer campaign and a fall winter campaign. So you're making. So like, you can't do that as often.

So you sort of like, hopefully get a couple campaigns, make a decent money, and then you cobble your living expenses together working e-comm jobs for less money, which can be anywhere from like $800 a day to like $2,000 a day, depending on the...

Wow, okay. So it's a big range. You said you're proud of your modeling experience now. What's the biggest accomplishment you've done in modeling?

I mean...

Speaker 1 (24:17.55)

I think you're most proud of, yeah.

I think like, it's sort of funny. I think the thing that I feel like is kind of the coolest is like doing the, like, so I'm like the model on a lot of the Calvin Klein underwear boxes. Really? Yeah. And that's always very fun for me, like going home and, or like wherever I am in the world.

they're selling Calvin Klein underwear. And so it's like very fun for me to see. And I did it for like three years and we did it, we had shot twice a year. So I did it for a number of years.

And they use that now through, like through now.

It depends, like I'm sure someone else is doing it now, but it takes a while and they've got so many different lines of underwear. Like you think you go to the store, see, it's underwear, it's Calvin Klein, but there's like, there's so many different lines that they have. And then it's like, the stuff they sell at Costco is different than the stuff they sell at their stores versus like what winds up at Macy's versus what winds up, you know, so it's just like, there's so much product.

Speaker 2 (25:24.628)

and they need someone on all of those different boxes and the feel of all of those boxes sort of needs to be different artistically.

That's crazy. Wow. That's really cool.

Cool. Yeah. And so like for me, that's fun. But then it's weird because it's like, you know, I don't know, I'll do random stuff like that. But then it's like the thing I get recognized the most for is like, I shot Ecom for Target. It's like everyone goes to the Target website and it's like, I'll do this like cool high fashion stuff. Yeah. You know, like I did work with like John Barbados or like DKNY or like whomever. It's like, I saw you on the Target website. I'm like, yeah, you did.

You

Speaker 1 (26:03.31)

That's cool. That's really cool. So wait, what is your workout routine like if you have to go show up for Calvin Klein? What's that look like?

I mean, it's changed a lot across time. and also like,

I think when I first started modeling, know, my, mother agent in Minneapolis put a lot more pressure on me to meet certain measurements. probably unsurprising to no one. did I say that right? Surprising nobody. Perfect. it's, I think there's like a lot more leeway in modeling for men than there is for women.

Right.

Speaker 2 (26:52.406)

and maybe it's because you make less or maybe it's because I'm doing more commercial stuff than runway stuff. But it's like, I think I was measured when I first came to New York and got signed like seven years ago. And honestly, I don't know that they've taken my measurement sense. it's, and my body has changed a lot. Like I'm a human. I've gone through a lot of different phases in my life. You know, I think when I, when I first started modeling, I was much more.

Okay.

Speaker 2 (27:19.662)

I was much more strict. was much more regimented, but it was also a lot easier. So like I did the five year plan in college. I like partied so hard my freshman year, I got kicked out of school. it took me extra year. And so my senior year of college, I lived at home cause all my friends had graduated. So why pay rent? I just commuted. And so it was really easy. It's like, I wasn't going out. I wasn't really partying at all. So it was like, my life was like school cause I needed to get done. And then working out because

I was modeling now. And so like, kind of became like that was my life and that was it. Yeah. It was, was very like strict about it. And then, when I moved to New York, it was hard just because I was so poor. like I, there was a time where like, and I've definitely talked about this or where like, was like stealing food cause I had no money and like my parents, God bless them could like help me out with rent.

yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:17.548)

I wasn't staying in nice places. Like I was staying in like the cheapest stuff I could find on Facebook marketplace. That was, you know, not like ideal to live in, but I had a roof over my head and I could shower. but like after that, you know, like I remember there was one day I paid my rent and I paid my, for like my Metro card and I had like a negative 30 cents in my bank account. Like I overdrew my account on the Metro card and there was like a less than a dollar, like for whatever reason, you know, Wells Fargo let it happen.

I remember it was like also a very radicalizing time in my life politically for me because like when you're in the Midwest and you're in the suburbs, you're very like isolated from poverty and you're not when you live in New York City, especially when you're living in like, you know, less gentrified communities because it's the only place you can afford to live to. And so, you know, I remember like going into the subway and seeing people like

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:13.944)

begging me for cash and I'm like, bro, you have more money than me right now in your hat. And like, I, doesn't, and like, it doesn't look that way because I slept in a house or in an apartment and I could shower and I have clothes that I brought with me to New York, but I've got negative 30 cents in my bank account and I owe Wells Fargo $20,000 in student loans. And, you know, seeing people living out of their car and being like, you know, the only difference between me and these people is the fact that I have a family that can help me.

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:41.664)

Right, absolutely.

Because if I didn't, I would be living just like these people. Like I would have nowhere to go. I would also be on the street. like, that is such a privilege and such a, like I am so lucky and it is an accident of birth. Like those people are there in so many cases through like no fault of their own.

Wow, yeah, no, mean, it's pretty inspiring to see where you're at now from that place. So yeah, thank you for sharing that.

Yeah, so I don't know that was yeah, I don't remember what the question was or how we got there

Speaker 2 (30:18.834)

It got hard to work out because I was doing that. I was that poor. So I don't know. I think like it was a lot more like bro splitty stuff. And then after that, I started working out after like my life turned around. This is probably like five years into being a new. I splurged and got myself a personal trainer and that was awesome. And he taught me how to do like a lot of kettlebell stuff because it's like, I don't need to do.

Okay.

Speaker 2 (30:47.03)

arm day, leg day, chest day, back day. Cause like, I'm not trying to be huge. Like sample sizes and modeling are not very big. And so I need to, and modeling is like, you need to fit the sample. Otherwise you're not getting the job. Cause there's a million other people who will fit the sample. And you're not better looking than them. You're not more special than them. Like the clothes are not made to fit you. You have to fit the clothes. And so that was really cool. And also I think like a lot healthier for me mentally and physically.

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:16.942)

Just cause I think fitness, especially like, mean, guess fitness for everyone, but fitness for men can be so like, you need to be at 5 % body fat or you're a piece of shit. And I think like so much of that. It is, Hey dude, that's New York city. So yeah, I think like it's, it's easy to have a

Bye.

Sorry for the ambulance going by. Yeah, it is.

Speaker 2 (31:45.698)

really unhealthy relationship to your body and to fitness. And I think it's harder for guys to like talk about it. It's not as spoken about, but I think like a lot of the like, I do intermittent fasting is like, that's like not necessarily a healthy relationship to food.

No, absolutely. mean, I mean, like that's kind of a lot of the reason and it's like a big topic I want to get into on this podcast, whether we do it here at some point. Like I'm curious to talk about this a little more because I feel that way of like if I if you're not at that like 5 % body fat and like there's other people that are and they're more attractive and they're more datable because they look better than you know what I mean by that. Does that

100%. I mean, like, and I've

especially being here where you're seeing people that are extremely attractive all over the place. It gets in your head when you're like in a going on dates or going on hinge, stuff like that. yeah.

Yeah, I mean, so I guess like, I wasn't planning to talk about it, but I guess like I also, so there was a point where, so like I had like an eating disorder for a while and I think like my relationship to food and exercise is probably not always that great. or at least like through modeling, got not that great. like I remember when I moved out to New York, just like weird stuff that happened, then it just sort of is like a million little things that push you in certain directions. Like,

Speaker 1 (32:55.278)

Yeah

Speaker 2 (33:06.574)

I moved out to New York and felt great, looked great, cool, awesome. And then I was out here and I was so, I did a million test shoots with photographers and I like built a book in like a week so that I moved out here right before fashion week in 2016, fall fashion week and created a whole book very quickly, but I was broke, like I said. And so I wasn't going to the gym, but I wasn't like getting fat, you know, but it's, it's like,

I just wasn't lifting weights. But I also wasn't eating. I was broke as shit. When I moved out here, I was sleeping on an air mattress. My mother agent gave me like 50 bucks because she had a friend who had an apartment complex and was making it model housing, but gave us a discount because my agent and the lady who owned the apartment were friends. I moved in.

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:56.152)

When you you say mother agent, what is that? meant to you this.

So the way like modeling works is your agents collect, I believe it's 20 % from your paycheck. And then I think they collect another 20 % from the client. So your agents make like 40 % of every dollar that you make. And, or so basically for every dollar you make, your agents make 40 cents. 20 cents comes from you, 20 cents comes from the client.

I might have that wrong, don't quote me on it, but I know at least 20 % is taken from me. And then, If...

Okay.

Speaker 2 (34:33.422)

My so like my agency here in New York. They're my mother agent now I'm no longer sound with my mother agency back in Minneapolis. So my agency keeps that full 20 % Okay, but if you have like a mother agent and basically the reason you have like smaller modeling agencies all across the country and like mid-sized cities is They scoop up all of that talent. So like I was outside I was in Minneapolis. So like everyone in the Twin Cities metro area you get signed with an agency there and then the hope is

you're signed to that agency as a mother agent and then they can place you in New York, they can place you in LA, they can place you in Europe, they can place you in Asia, they can place you in Mexico, Latin America, whatever. And basically because the mother agent brought you to those agencies, they get half of the agency fee.

So if it's 20%, let's say my agency now gets 20%, maybe it's 40%, whatever they get 20%. Well, then they give half of that 20 % to my mother agent and then they keep half. Got it. And so if I can be placed in a bunch of different markets, well, then I can potentially be making income in New York. I can be making income in LA. It can be making income in Spain and London, wherever. And my mother agent just gets to collect royalties for discovering me for finding me.

Yeah, okay

and so that's, no, that's so fine. so yeah, that is sort of the business end of, like the modeling industry and how that works. It's a lot of like, it's a lot of finagle.

Speaker 1 (35:53.217)

way.

Speaker 1 (36:05.998)

But were talking about like some body issue type situation.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was out here, broke as hell. I like shot a book and had all these photos and obviously like I look one way in the photos and it's like.

I I had shot these photos like 48 hours before I went to a casting, which is where you show up to a casting to get a job. And I remember someone looked at me at the casting and like looked at my photos and they're like, Oh, was this a long time ago? You look very different. I went motherfucker. That was 48 hours ago. Like, like what? Cause I don't have a pump. Like all of a sudden now I look like scrawny and it's like those little things like get in your head. And I'm like, I don't look that different. That was 48 hours ago.

But people make like all sorts of comments about your body or like, you know, when I was doing Calvin Klein, it was like, um, I had moved into my first apartment. like, was subletting cause I had no money. was short-term and I was bouncing between Minnesota and New York a lot because I would run out of cash. And so I signed like my first real lease on a tiny studio and I don't know, I was spending all my time like.

building furniture or just like making my apartment, like, you know, feel like a home. And I was like, not intentionally, but also not unintentionally, like not eating enough. Cause it was like, I was just working and all of a I'm like, shit, I'm hungry, but whatever. gonna keep going. And so I lost like a bunch of weight, but I had like all the muscle behind me still. Right. And then I showed up to work for Calvin and you know, they're like,

Speaker 2 (37:51.402)

Ryan, did you lose weight? You look great. And it's like, well, yeah, I did, but I didn't necessarily get there in the best way for me. And then that like gets in your head and then you're chasing that feeling. And then you keep like not eating enough, but then you like lose all the muscle because you're eating four ice cubes a day and like, you know, chasing it with a gulp of air. And then, you know, like, so

then it just becomes this like self-fulfilling cycle of like restriction and starvation and you get into this like really unhealthy place very quickly.

I can't imagine that extra layer of the modeling agency on when you're already heady about this stuff. I think for me, a lot of it was like I was a chubby middle school into like beginning of high school and then thinned out a bit. And I think that body has stuck in my head. 100%. I read Josh Peck, you know who Josh Peck is? Yeah. Of course, Drake and Josh. I read his book and obviously we know him as like

Thanks very

Speaker 1 (38:59.084)

the fat Josh on TV and he's gotten super skinny now, but he talked about like how that body is like, that's still his mindset around it. And I definitely feel that way. I cannot imagine having the added layer of people talking about your body and ridiculing you all the time in like, it's crazy.

And it's also the thing too, where it's like, there's so much conflicting diet stuff out there. And like, I'm not a, I'm not a dietitian. I'm not pro like, don't, you know, there's so much like bro science. And it's like, just eat between, you know, intermittent fast, like don't eat a carb or you're going to die. Like whatever it is, there's so much like bullshit out there. And then you get so scared to try anything because you're like, well, if I gain 1 % body fat, I'm not going to have a roof over my head.

And like, so you get into this head space of like, you know, I, my literal survival is dependent on me keeping my body fat percentage low. it's not, you know, like I can always go do something else. can move home. Like, but when you're caught in it in that cycle and it's like, the highs are so high, but then the lows are so low. And it's like, all of a sudden you're like, shit, I haven't worked in three months. I'm not thin enough. I haven't worked in three months because.

Right.

Speaker 2 (40:19.884)

because I'm too fat, I'm too this, I'm, you know, and like, I'm six foot, which is like fine, but in modeling it's like, I don't do runway cause I'm not six two. And like being shorter than it's like, the other thing is like the sample sizes are always 32 waist, but for me to be as thin as the industry wants, my waist is actually going to be closer to a 29 or 30. So when I go try on samples, they're too big in the waist.

And then my chest is naturally closer to like a 42, but then the sample size is closer to a 38 or 40. And so it's like, I'm always like, I'm too big in the chest and then I'm too small in the waist and I'm a little bit short. And so it was like, especially it matters less with like commercial stuff. And I think that's why I've found success doing like aero pastel, target, like whatever, where it's like, I'm putting on some fucking jeans. You know, like it doesn't matter.

And it's like, but it's like, for all of those reasons, it's like, that's why I never did like found success on like the runway side of things or the high fashion side of things. And it's hard. Like I started modeling at, you know, 22, 23 and, um, you're 23, right? Yeah. So like I started when I was about your age and then it's like, well, I'm competing quote unquote on like runway, but it's like, well, these kids are like 16, 17 years old and they're six too. And it's like,

I'm 23.

Speaker 2 (41:46.04)

Well, no shit. don't look like a 17 year old, like I'm 23, you know? But it's like, but I'm still in this headspace. like, well, if I could, if I change my body in this way and that way, like then I'll get those jobs. And it's like, I had to accept, like, that's just never going to be my lane. Like I'm going to be the commercial guy. I'm going to be like Target, Kmart, like what? And like, there's nothing wrong with that.

So like accepting that also helped take some of that like pressure off of me.

Did that head space or that mindset of like thinking about your body all the time and ridiculing yourself like go into your social life as well or was it?

Oh my God, yeah. So I mean, as long as we're talking about it, fuck it, let's talk about it. Also, sorry if I swear too much. All right, word. So like it did get to a point where like, eventually I started having bulimia and like throwing up, which is embarrassing because I was 25 years old and I remember.

I swear a lot.

Speaker 1 (42:41.58)

not a no it's not it's not a very yeah exactly that's the

I want to destigmatize it, you're right. I was really sick and I was really unhealthy and

I also recognized that like, I, there was a correlation between like, my bulimia and drinking. And it would be a thing where like, one, when you're not eating, you barely drink it all and you are wasted. but then it's like, well, then I'm wasted. And then it's like, my God, I'm going to go get pizza. I'm going to go get like whatever. And then I'm like, well, it doesn't even matter. Cause I'm going to throw up when I get home anyway.

Right. And then it's like, and I was like, I don't want to be someone who has this relationship to alcohol. I don't want to use alcohol to facilitate bad decisions that make me feel bad. I also wouldn't I drink too much, wind up saying a bunch of stuff I regret, you know? And then it also became a thing where like, because my relationship to food was so toxic, like, I think the thing on the other side of the eating disorder is like,

as always.

Speaker 2 (43:53.176)

Food is so sacred and like sharing a meal with people is so special. Over the dinner table is like how you commune with your fellow humans. like the thing that makes life worth living is relationships with other people. Like a certain body fat person, like when I'm on my deathbed, I'm never gonna look back at my life and be like, thank God my body fat percentage was, you know, at whatever, at 25 years old. Like I'm gonna look back on my life and be like, my God.

I had so much fun with my friends on this trip. I had so much fun in my twenties in New York City, whatever. And so I realized I was like robbing myself of just the relationship to the world that I wanted. And so I stopped drinking for like a year and changed my relationship to food, changed my relationship to alcohol. I was like, I need to like fix this thing that is controlling me.

Was there a time that like, was there like a breaking point for you? Like how did you reverse that mindset?

I mean, so I think there were two things. One, it was, it was my 25th or maybe it was my 26th birthday. And I had just like, I think of it. Have you ever read Michael Pollan's book, How to Change Your Mind? Okay. Great book. It was on the Ezra Klein show. And I listened to this podcast, maybe

haven't.

Speaker 2 (45:27.672)

two or three years before I ever even read the book, it, just the podcast changed my life and it changed my understanding of like what I was going through. And Michael Pollan basically makes this argument that your brain is a filtering mechanism. And when you look at the brain of a baby and the brain of someone tripping on psychedelic drugs, their brains look very, very similar.

And he's like, well, basically what happens is you're born and you're paying attention to everything because you're a newborn in this world and you don't know what to filter yet. And what happens is you start to filter out the information that you don't need because it doesn't help you survive. And what happens is he, he gives this analogy of like, your brain is like a hill with fresh snow.

and you go down the hill and you create these well-worn paths in the snow and it's like even if you try to go down a different path, you wind up in that like well-trodden deep groove that's already in the hill. And your brain as you age basically has these like super highways and it's like it knows how to communicate with itself through these neural pathways that have been worn in for your whole life. And what happens when you're on psychedelics is it's basically like fresh snow on your brain.

And it allows you to like shut down the super highways and take the side roads. And, cool and cool idea. And so basically he says, addiction, depression, anxiety, OCD, eating disorders. They're all basically the same thing at how they operate in the brain. It's like, it's an overactive default mode network. It's an overactive ego. basically like you're constantly having thoughts of.

He

Speaker 2 (47:19.342)

You know, if it's anxiety, you're having like crippling thoughts about the future or depression, crippling thoughts about the past or addiction. Like you're only thinking about the drug that you love. If it's an eating disorder, you're only thinking about food and the way your body is going to react or like whatever it is, it's your brain constantly operating in this way where you're only thinking about this one thing. And, and understanding that like,

it sort of helps me be like, it's not like my fault necessarily. Like there are external factors that have forced me to hyper fixate on this thing. And like, I'm like susceptible to it. Like with my own history of depression, like a lot of these things are comorbid. So it's like a lot of addicts also have anxiety or depression or like people with OCD, same thing. And so it's like, yeah, my brain already exists in a world where it's susceptible to one of these things.

So of course it's gonna be susceptible to the other. And so like almost just understanding that like helped me give myself grace to be like imperfect. And so it was like, oh yeah, I quit drinking. And then it's like, if I go out and I have a drink and I fall victim to peer pressure, I'm not a bad person. I didn't fail. Like it's okay. And then I start again tomorrow. If I go out and I eat too much and I...

Right.

Speaker 1 (48:41.014)

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (48:46.734)

throw up or whatever, it's like, I'm disappointed. And I didn't live in the way that I wanted. I didn't live in the way that was like aligned with my best self, my happiest self, my truest self. I fell victim to like the way my brain operates and I just start again tomorrow and that's fine. And it just helps me give myself grace. And like, think that's the biggest thing is like,

Just sort of such a good way to look at it.

Speaker 2 (49:16.396)

we're all going to fall short of being the person we want to be. And like, that doesn't make you a bad person, it makes you human.

Yeah, absolutely. mean, I really liked that reference and I will definitely check out that book. It's also a

Go ahead. On Netflix now, think it's a show if you don't want to read it.

yeah, I either. will, maybe I'll do both. It's so, going back to what we were talking about before about like a parasocial relationship, it's so crazy that you genuinely do know nothing about the people you follow on social media. if I was scrolling through your profile and saw your fashion videos or your your just style videos or your videos about the cafe, like, you don't know anything, and you always hear this, but like you really, really, really know nothing.

Yeah, and like I overshare online. I am victim to the algorithm. There's interesting research on the way social media affects our brain and we tend to overshare on those platforms and 100 % I do, especially on Instagram. I be sharing shit I don't need to share.

Speaker 1 (50:21.976)

Do you get into this type of stuff on there?

Um, on occasion, but less often. Um, yeah, I think I used to more before tick tock because it was like a much more personal platform because there weren't as many people there. Yeah. And now that like tick tock made the page grow. And then I had like one or two. Tick tocks that I posted on Instagram and they did really well as reels. And so now I also have a lot of people on Instagram that don't even know I post on tick tock, which is like kind of weird. And so.

Yeah.

Sorry, I just burped, I'm drinking soda water. And so I think like, because there's so many people there, it's like harder to be vulnerable. Yeah.

Yeah, for sure. I mean, yeah, first of all, thank you for sharing all of that. I know that like hearing hearing that stuff come from you helps me and I'm sure somebody else hearing that type of stuff. Yeah, I mean, that's that's the hope of doing this this type of thing in general is it just is to like bring these topics and these types of things to the forefront because specifically for guys, we you don't hear guys talking about.

Speaker 2 (51:21.858)

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:34.988)

body image. don't hear guys talking about eating disorders. You just don't. I mean, one of the reasons I started this in the first place was because there's hundreds of resources for girls like this and podcasts and Instagram accounts that are talking about eating disorders and body image. And there's really, really, really nothing for guys my age and 20s, at least that I found that was good enough. So

This is the stuff you guys are growing up with is so much worse than the shit I grew up with in that. Like, don't know, social media was just a part of your life from the jump. Cause like you're just a couple of years, you know, seven years younger than me, but like, God, I didn't have, and like, yes, we had social media, but it was like, you had to do it on your computer. And like, I didn't have a laptop till I started college. So was like, I had to be on the family computer in the computer room.

So what do you mean? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:28.812)

to be on social media. Got it. And like, I didn't have a smartphone until I started college. And so it's like,

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:36.142)

and it's been in my pocket since like middle school, so.

Exactly. like, so you've just had this unfettered access to social media in a way that like I didn't and I'm not that much older than you. And, you know, it's been really interesting. I've like maybe trained my algorithm too much. One of my weird pet projects is like,

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:59.692)

I've become weirdly obsessed with the ways in which like male fitness stuff online lately, like, it's something I've only noticed in the last year, maybe it's always been there and I just, the algorithm never gave it to me, but the ways in which like steroid use appear to be normalized on social media for men in particular. And like, there's so much like bodybuilder content around like, I'm natural, I'm enhanced. And it's like so normalized in a way that like no one would ever admit to that in my day. You know?

And on one on the one hand, it's like good that like people are being transparent so, you know, like what's actually feasible right to like I don't really think that should be normalized like at all like like You're not a most people are not bodybuilders and even if you are you probably still shouldn't be doing it because it's probably not good for you long term, but it's like Bro most of us work in like an office

Like, like, we're or like, you know, manufacturing jobs have been outsourced. So like, I don't know, most of us are working in the service sector. And it's like, I'm sorry, but like, I don't need to be on steroids to like, be a barista. Yeah, you know, like, that's purely vanity.

Yeah.

I mean, I think that mindset though is the same mindset that we're talking about where it's like about body image stuff. It goes right back to that where people feel like they're not big enough or if they're not lifting hard enough then like for me personally, I started like really trying to early this year in like January and

Speaker 2 (54:23.053)

So

Speaker 1 (54:35.422)

I didn't really, really, really see results until like this month or like last month. Like it takes so long when you're doing it naturally. Right. Or like, I try like protein powder once in while, but I forget to do it all the time. like it's that mindset of like everyone else is so big. How do they get there? Like, how do they do that? Yeah.

And it's like, you're not gonna be happy. If you achieve that, you're not gonna be happier. To do that, to get to that point, it requires a level of dedication where you'll also be isolated from your friends. You will be isolated from the people you care about to get there. And if that's what you wanna do, cool, great, but like...

think when you look back on your life that's going to be the thing that's going to make you happiest. And I could be wrong, but I just don't think that I am.

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:27.062)

At least for you and me, can do with you there for sure.

And so it's like workout to be healthy. And yeah, and like the rest is too much for like 99 % of people.

That's why I do it, yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:40.798)

It's become more so like a mindset or like a mentality thing for me that than anything like it just I feel better when I work out It feels it it like fuels me and energizes me in a way that nothing else really does right

It feels great.

Speaker 2 (55:55.97)

And that's great. That is awesome. Like it's good for your bone health going into your life. Like being stronger now will be good for you when you're 50. You know what I mean? Like being flexible now will help you when you're 50. Like all of that is good.

Absolutely sure, but I will say it's taken me like time to get away from like the body image thing of like this is I want to look great like yeah and and get to a place where it's actually no I'd rather feel great and and Yeah, absolutely But it's it it takes it that's like a this is something that like guys don't talk about I I don't hear anybody talking about this type of thing so

And I think that's the key.

Speaker 2 (56:35.522)

Yeah. It's something I want to also like explore more publicly on TikTok as well. Like how, how can I have these conversations such that like they reach the people they need to reach? And I also never want it to be like...

When I talk about my own experiences, I never want it to be this like, poor me thing. Like I never want it to be in such a way that it's like I'm pandering or trying to get sympathy or to make people feel bad for me. But it's like, I also do want to share my experience in such a way that like, it can help people know like that they're not alone when they're going through these experiences. And like, everybody feels those pressures. And like, if you look at like someone who's modeling full time.

They're also like, they hate their body just as much or more as like, you know, the dude with a gut. And it's like.

Which is so crazy to think, really, for me at least.

Of course, it's like, but like that's real, you know, if nothing else, it's like maybe the model thinks like, because there is that added pressure and it is how they make their money. It's like, you're so hyper aware of everything in a way that like, you just don't have to be, if you're like a casual person who does whatever, you know? So I don't know. I don't know how to navigate that, but that's something that, you I would like to explore.

Speaker 1 (57:49.986)

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:57.484)

I feel the same way, specifically on this podcast, I've been thinking about how to get into this topic, and I feel like these types of conversations with two people who have had experience, or just sharing, I don't find it to be something like, poor me, you dealt with some body images because other people have too, but it's not that because when somebody opens up about it, is what you were saying, you genuinely feel not alone in that.

Yeah, and that's so important.

Yeah, exactly, Cool, yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you had some.

Yeah, I don't even know anymore. I lost it. It's on me. It's all good.

That's on me, sorry. No, but seriously, thanks for getting into that. It will be helpful. At least it's helpful for me. Exactly. So let's get into... I wanna talk about the silent, I wanna talk about the cafe. I know we're long. this okay for you? Cool, cool. Okay, so...

Speaker 2 (58:45.28)

Hey, if it helps someone then that's awesome.

Speaker 2 (58:55.642)

Yeah, I'm chilling.

Speaker 1 (58:59.694)

As I was talking about before about like the topics that guys don't talk about and the reason for this podcast in the first place, one of the other big reasons and like the first one was my friend and I moved to New York when we, like our intern summer two years ago and the first night we were going out to like a bar and we were like, what the fuck are we supposed to wear to a bar? And there's no real resources about that. Like we Googled it and like there was like some like weird like Quora or like Reddit shit and

I felt weird asking my sibling, I felt weird asking a friend. So we didn't know what to do. So what do you wear going out on a weekend and how do you pick that?

Hmm, I don't know. Like I know this is gonna sound weird, but like everything is kind of like from a place of feeling and Like I don't like all of my tic tocs are fly by I never go into a tic toc knowing Or like I never go into outfit creation for a tic toc knowing where it's gonna end up

Huh.

everything is like I start with an item that I wanna wear and then I just try on stuff until I find something I Yes. And so it's like, if I wanna wear a pair of pants or boots or something, like I start from a place of I wanna wear this one thing in particular. And then I, if you saw my room in my TikToks, like my bed is littered with clothes and like,

Speaker 2 (01:00:37.11)

In the front of my apartment is my coat closet and like I've pulled out 10 coats and they're all over my bed and they're in the living room and like there's just shit everywhere because I was trying on everything and I had no idea where I was going. And it's like, so it's a mix of like, I want to wear this one thing. What's the weather today? And then like,

How do I accommodate both of those things and end up in a place that feels good? That's my process. like, I don't know. And I think it's also, I had a lot of years pre-TikTok to just like wear what I liked. And so it's also a mix of like, I know what things feel good to me or what things feel right to me or what things feel like me.

Okay, cool.

Speaker 2 (01:01:36.108)

while also growing all the time and trying to do something cooler and more interesting. And it's also like, as I've fallen into a routine of doing more get ready with me's than I used to, it's also a place of like...

how can I fucking put my wardrobe together in a way that these people haven't seen before? Cause I used to just wear the same shit all the time, but no one was watching. didn't, my, I now my income's dependent on kicking out these videos. So it's like, it used to just be like, all right, I've got like three things I love. Let's wear them into the ground. And now it's like, I can't wear the same outfit for 20 TikToks in a row.

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:11.362)

That's, I'm in the boat of I wear the same thing again and again. What would you say for somebody who's like 22, 23, who wants to go out on like a night out, like honestly doesn't know where to start whatsoever.

great.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25.742)

I mean, start with some classics. Like you don't need to be doing the craziest shit in the world, you know? I think get a decent pair of jeans, get a decent pair of slacks. It's New York City. You can be pretty casual in most places. Like wear a tank top and a button down. Wear a nice fitting t-shirt. Like if it's, get a cool jacket. Like...

you don't need to do that much to look put together, to look like you tried, you know? And I know everyone's like, get a pair of 501s. And it's like, well, okay, but those don't work for everyone. for me, like Levi's 501s are like the blue gene. Like they're the gene that Levi's built their name on. If you say, what are the best genes? Everyone and their mom is going to say, get a pair of 501s.

I don't even know what 501s are.

Speaker 2 (01:03:22.37)

When you look at the model on the website for Levoz 501s, look like a, they've got a little room in the thigh. They're like a straight fit gene. But like, I put them on and by the time they fit me in the waist, they're skinny jeans in the thigh.

Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:03:36.526)

Okay, yeah, that wouldn't work for me then.

Right. And so it's like, well, so like, hate that like generic advice of like, you need to be wearing this, but like, if you have an idea of like what sort of silhouette you want, well then like, you can find jeans to accommodate that. You can find pants to accommodate that. And it's like, and, and obviously like trends are going to influence what you're going after. Your own personal tastes are going to influence what you're going after. But like, I would say get a pair of like straight fit jeans.

that's not too skinny, not too loose. It'll look good with almost anything. It'll look good with a pair of sneakers. It'll look good with a pair of boots. Like it's so easy. And I don't know. Yeah, like.

Do you have a couple like brands you'd recommend for the jeans and the pants?

honestly, my two favorite pairs of jeans for me, nudie jeans, my, I've got like the tough Tony. for me, nudie N U D I E nudie jeans. I love their tough Tony fit. It's like super loose. but again, it's like the five one situation where it's supposed to be super loose, but by the time it fits me in the waist as a loose fit gene, it's like,

Speaker 1 (01:04:36.108)

Spell the brand name.

Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:04:53.592)

kind of more of like a straight leg. Like it's not huge, it's not that baggy. That's a great pant for someone who's, if you're putting the time in the gym for the last year and your thighs are getting meatier, that is like one of my favorite jeans. And then honestly, my other, and they're more expensive, but they're really cool. They've got a store here downtown and like if they ever tear, break, whatever, you can bring them in, they'll repair them. Really cool brand with a really great sustainability profile, but you are paying for it.

Yeah, yeah,

Speaker 2 (01:05:23.424)

The other, my other favorite pair of jeans, Gap. They came out with like a 90s loose fit. It's organic cotton. Some of, and the other thing I hate with jeans is like when they, I usually hate when they like pre-fade them. Cause the fading often looks really bad and really fake. And so it's a dark wash jean, but like not with like fake whiskering and stuff in the crotch and not over the pockets. It's just like, it's one solid color.

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:53.56)

which is what I'm after. So like my thing with jeans is make sure there's no like fake fading and cause like do that yourself, put the work in or get a pair of used pants that already has it. If you don't want to do the work, which like I usually don't want to do the work. But yeah, so, then, but like the gap nineties fit, really like, that's all I wore this last fall and winter. And it was like $60 on sale, which is not bad. Organic cotton.

and like a really good straight fit, loose fit pant. Like those are my two jeans. Like when I'm wearing jeans, those are the ones I wear.

What about for like pants? if you're if work pants are like, pants.

so like I wear a lot of dress pants, but I have thrifted all of them. I, my parents live in the suburbs back in Minnesota. I just go to Goodwill and everyone works in an office or like has a job where they need slacks. And I just go get them for seven bucks. And then I bring them to the tailor for, and get them brought in for like 30, 30, 40 bucks and 30, 40 bucks for a pair of beautiful pants is.

not expensive. So that's always my secret, but actually I just, was shooting Ecom last week for this brand and then I put on a pair of like Dickies classic fit trousers. had a pleat, the canvas on them felt like really good. Honestly, I, and I was actually looking at the Dickies website yesterday. I wound up not buying them. was like, I don't need it. I've got too many clothes. I don't have space for it, but like,

Speaker 1 (01:07:07.148)

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:07:34.926)

I don't know, pair of Dickie's slacks looked great and the construction on them is way better than a pair of like, not Dickie, my God, I've said Dickie's this whole time. I meant Dockers. A pair of Dockers slacks that were actually great. Dickie's are fine, but the construction on them sucks. The quality sucks. But yeah, the Dockers I put on were actually really good. And so I was on the Dockers website yesterday looking at some stuff.

Cool.

But yeah, like I would say don't think too hard. Like find something that feels good for you. I always recommend a high waist even though I know low rise is super trendy right now. But I would say if you're getting into fashion, you're not gonna be into like something crazy on either end of the spectrum. Like you're still finding your style. So like going in and doing like the most extreme thing is always gonna feel like a costume to you. And it'll never be something that

feels right, that feels authentic to you. So I would always say like, start in the middle of the road, find something pretty inoffensive, and then like...

observe what you do and don't like. And my big thing is always like, I'll buy stuff or try trends out and then it'll sit in my closet for a year. And I'll be like, I love this garment and I've worn it zero times. So like, obviously I don't. Because I keep wearing this other thing. So, and then you start to learn over time, like, okay, I can appreciate all of these different looks or all of these different aesthetics. But the thing that's actually me is this.

Speaker 1 (01:08:57.934)

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:09:11.576)

Cool.

Yeah. And I had that experience right before this call. I went out to brunch with my girlfriend to like film a brand deal and take some photos and whatever. And I, um, I went to Acne and I've never purchased designer stuff before this afternoon. It was my first time and, um, yeah, it's something, but I like, tried on a sweater and I loved it. And I tried on a pair of pants that were like super baggy and I liked them, but I didn't love them.

And I was like, I love the baggy trend that's happening right now. I love that silhouettes are ballooning and getting huge, but I don't see myself picking this out of my drawer over other things that I already own. And so I walked away, even though like I liked it. The price point was also really high, so that made it easier to put down, and walk away from because it was expensive, but it was like, I, it was nice to like, look at that and be like, this is cool, but I don't think it's me. And that felt really good to be like,

Right.

Speaker 2 (01:10:13.238)

It's okay that I'm not trendy enough for this.

So when you're going to buy something you you think about like you wearing it multiple times that that's how you think about that.

Yeah, definitely. I also think like, and this is also the way TikTok has worked my relationship to clothes more generally. But like I used to always say, I always want to look back at photos of me and still think I look cool. And so I never want to be too trendy such that I look back at something and feel embarrassed.

And I think TikTok has sort of warped that living in New York has sort of warped that. And like, I, I maybe am a little more victim to trend just because I'm exposed to so much more TikTok than I was when I just like lived my life as a normal person who wasn't consuming fashion content. Right. And like, cause like before I posted on TikTok, like it never gave me fashion content. the only person who I now follow who I followed before I started posting was like

Yeah

Speaker 2 (01:11:16.022)

my friend Julian Carter, and just because he does a lot of DIY stuff and a lot of like punk inspired stuff. And so like my algorithm pre posting was all like socialist politics and punk rock and like DIY stuff. And so I think like that's how he made it into my feed. But I was like, yeah, no one posts about fashion on TikTok. They do. I just wasn't watching it. Exactly. And so once I started posting that and the algorithm figured out like, this is what you're creating.

being served it right.

Speaker 2 (01:11:45.742)

then it changed and all of a sudden I have this community of people I like and follow and engage with who are doing similar stuff. And I think like, but yeah, my goal was always like, I wanna look put together and I want whatever I'm wearing to still look cool in 10 years. And I think I've sort of lost that and yeah, but I think it's also something like.

Cool.

Speaker 2 (01:12:10.976)

Another thing I always think like now that it is my job, I'm also sent a lot of stuff for free and I give away most of it because I don't think it's good to be dressed by other people. Because then I'm always thinking like, I dressing for myself or am I dressing how they want me to dress? And like, I don't always know how to navigate that and that gets murky.

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:29.336)

Fair. you also go, I'm really curious, top to bottom, first date, what would you wear? And how do I style? This is honestly a question for me, as I'm sure other people have this. Cologne, belt, shoes, everything.

Yeah, I would say, is it summer or what's the weather? Because the weather is always gonna be the first thing. Because if it's hot as hell, you don't wanna be sweating. Okay, it's fine. Start with a pair of slacks. My go-to is always a pair of dress pants. I've got one pair of suit pants that like I live and die in. I probably got them for like $7 at Goodwill back in Minnesota.

I mean,

Speaker 2 (01:13:09.038)

And like I wore them for like a year and a half before I ever even got them tailored, but I got them tailored. They fit so well. get your shit tailored. it actually makes all the difference. I wore them out for the first time. I wore them from my house. I wore them to the shop and like three people made comments. Just putting them on tailored for the first time. I was like, damn, holy shit. All right. but yeah, like.

Cool.

Speaker 2 (01:13:36.238)

they're a straight leg trouser, they're not too loose. There's room in the thigh, but they're straight from the knee down. Like I'm gonna start with a trouser, can be tapered, you can do whatever you want. And then depending on like how fancy, maybe I would go. Yeah, yeah. So first date, not too fancy, then I'd probably go like.

It's like a first date, like not too fancy.

Speaker 1 (01:14:00.987)

Drinks probably going to drinks

I'd probably go like tank top with an over shirt and like a light jacket, or maybe I'd go tank top and then wear the light jacket as the outer layer. Or I'd go, maybe I'd go, but I'd probably go like trousers, t-shirt, something more casual on top with an outer layer that's like cooler, trendier, something like maybe it's a button down. Maybe it's like.

Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:14:31.436)

My jacket serves as the outer layer and then like a pair of nice footwear, whether that's nice boots or loafers or, but yeah, like a more formal shoe, a hard bottom shoe and a slacks and then a casual top.

Okay, and then belt, like does the belt have to match the shoe?

No, I mean

If I'm in like a brown or a black shoe, does the belt have to be brown or black?

I would say no. think like, I don't know, cause sometimes I'm weird about it and sometimes I'm not. Like sometimes I don't care and it's like, think mixing and matching can give an outfit an air of like, I don't care too hard. I'm not that fuzzy, which is nice. But then sometimes it is nice to match. I don't know. can be, I think like if I do brown shoes, then I'll want to wear a brown belt.

Speaker 2 (01:15:28.312)

But if I wear like ox blood shoes, then I'll wear a black belt and it's fine. I think it's like, it maybe depends on the leather. For some reason, if it's like red leather, I don't give a shit about the belt. But yeah, I don't know why I'm that way. That doesn't make any sense.

Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:15:41.122)

Got it.

Speaker 1 (01:15:45.976)

So, in general, would you say if I'm wearing brown shoes, I should try and wear brown, Isabelle?

Yeah, but I would say it doesn't have to be the exact same shade of brown. Maybe that's what I say. Like it doesn't have to be perfectly matchy matchy. No, yeah. You should wear it.

What about like cologne?

Like do you have like a brand you recommend? Like that's what I mean. I think you should wear it too.

I've been wearing the YSL for years and years and years. I love that a lot. I'll give you like pre-TikTok recommendations of things I bought that I actually spent my money on that wasn't gifted. So YSL, I'm looking at my cologne right now, the YSL with like like...

Speaker 1 (01:16:27.374)

That'd be great, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:16:35.31)

It's got like an octagon for a lid cap. It's metallic. I don't know if it's a OODA parfum. I don't know how the fuck you say that. I'm a Midwestern. I'm a Midwestern yokel. Um, and then, so that's like my main daily driver that I've been wearing for like a decade at this point.

Deodorant by the way, I'm just curious.

I've got weirdly sensitive skin, so I just do Dove Men for sensitive skin. Yeah, rub on.

Okay, like rub on stick or spray? Okay, I use the spray because the stick gave me a weird rash.

I mean, yeah, and I have that same issue like super itchy even like I mean, I guess they already paid me so I can say this but like I just did a brand deal for salt and stone and it's like a natural deodorant and I used it for like three days. I was like, this is great day four. My God, my armpits were so itchy and I think it's, I think they put baking soda in it. I think that's what I react.

Speaker 1 (01:17:25.755)

That makes it natural.

Yeah, cause then there's not like aluminum or whatever in it. I don't know. But yeah, so I use the Dove Men sensitive skin, but like whatever works just, just don't be stinky. And then I love the other one around when COVID was happening, I splurged on Versace Dylan Blue. I like that a lot.

And then there's one other cologne that I bought out. I was on a trip with my ex-girlfriend out in the Hamptons and we went to this store and I bought a cologne and I can see it, but I don't know the name. It's a smaller brand. could probably aren't that many places states where you can get it. It's an English company. So I'll forget about that one. But yeah, my daily driver is the YSL and the Versace Dylan Blue. And then I've been gifted a couple of scents from Le Labo that I really like.

Cool.

Speaker 2 (01:18:15.874)

So yeah.

Okay, great. What about like, skin care and like shaving before the, like, yeah.

Well, I don't have very good facial hair, so I like to shave just because

I don't either this looks actually horrible after this.

It's your own webcam, so it's in like 240p on my end.

Speaker 2 (01:18:39.5)

I don't know. Like if you've got like a cool, if you're like a high T dude with a great five o'clock shadow, like my fucking dream, you know, like, like lean into it, you know, but like I'm, I, I think I usually shave just cause it's like when I feel my best, but however you're going to, I think the biggest thing is just confidence. Like whatever you're going to do, that's going to make you feel good. skincare, just moisturize. You don't need to spend a lot of money on it. I, for years.

I used like Neutrogena sensitive skin unscented stuff forever. That was great. And then I started using CeraVe because they have an AM and PM and it's nice to have the SPF during the day. But yeah, basically anything that you can get at a drugstore is fine. And my thing is with that too is it's like I used to

I used to work in California a lot. I was working with men's warehouse a ton. And at that point I was also traveling back home to Minnesota a lot. So I was always between New York, Minnesota and California. And for me it's always like, I can't buy a product that's hard to get in case I forget it when I'm traveling. So I need something that I like and that's easy to get in case I travel somewhere and I forget it. like, I went home and I forgot my moisturizer.

They got drugstores everywhere and it's not hard to get and it's a good enough product. And so for me, it's always that like that, that ease of access was really important for me.

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:20:17.376)

Okay, cool. And you just moisturize?

Well now I'm older so now I have an under eye cream that I use and then I moisturize and then that's it.

Okay, cool. What about for shaving? What brand?

I've been using Harry's razors for years and yeah, since Harry's used to only be like, mail order. So you like just, it was only online and I've been using them since like 2013, probably. And that's all I've really ever used. And now like, now they keep hiring me for brand deals, which is great. Cause that's like such an easy sell. Cause it's like, I've been using you guys since you were a small company, you know, now you're huge, you're venture backed like.

They're, you know, global at this point, but it's like I've been using and like I got my family on Harry's like my dad uses it to shave his head. My mom uses it to shave her legs. Like everyone's using Harry's.

Speaker 1 (01:21:16.728)

Cool, and I hope this isn't uncomfortable. Like what about like shaving down there? Do you use like Manscaped or anything? Like I use Manscaped, I think it's great.

I don't, yeah, I use just like a regular ass buzzer. Do you? Not like, yeah, like it's got like the guard on it or whatever, yeah. And just to like clean up.

Do you?

Speaker 1 (01:21:35.682)

That's what I used to do and I feel like I cut myself so many different times and it's just like... are you- Your balls?

my balls? I don't cut myself with... I mean, I'd just be using Harry's Harry Stakes Caramel... Yeah!

me there too G. Really? Yeah. Alright, maybe I'll try it, but Manscaped Out, works for me. just, just, Okay, word. Another topic that I feel like no one ever talks about. I Okay, cool. So I feel like you've answered a lot of the fashion questions I had for you. Any other tips for like guys in their twenties fashion style wise that you wanted to share?

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:22:09.654)

I would just say don't pay that much attention to what the hell's going on online. Like I think, especially with tick-tock it's like so easy to get down like a fashion rabbit hole. And then all of sudden, like, like I was 28 years old, I think when I started posting on and it's like, I just went in there because I don't know, I'm arrogant, I guess, and started posting and like,

I didn't know shit about designers before I started posting. It's like, I just knew what I liked.

And it was literally just all, again, it's like, it's all feeling like, do I like this? Do I not? like, yes, I had experiences of like being in college during like 2012, 2013 peak, like Lumineers, Millennial, Hipster, whatever. so there's a lot of like heritage brands, like everyone was into salvaged denim. Everyone was into red wing boots. Like there's all this stuff that I thought was cool, but I couldn't afford. And it like definitely like influenced my taste, but it's also like super hyper masculine and like,

I'm not. And so like, how do I navigate my own relationship to masculinity through fashion? And like, that's something like each individual person has to navigate for themselves. like, listen to yourself before you listen to anyone else.

Cool, that's great advice, thanks. Okay, let's talk about the cafe. So I came for the first time to Sweet B, which is the cafe. You own it alone or how, yeah, did that? Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:23:41.132)

So I have a business partner and she's also the investor. So basically I found the space and I couldn't, I always, so I worked in coffee in college, loved it, loved being a barista. And like, I always talked with my mom about opening up a shop together, like after she retired, but I always thought that would be like a Minnesota thing. We'd cobble some money together, a small business loan and open up some dinky cafe together and it'd be cute. And like,

I don't know. I just found this space. I couldn't get it out of my head. And I just went around like to all the cafes around me and I was like, Hey, is the owner in? They're like, no. I was like, can I leave my email? I want to set up an informational interview. I just want to talk to them. No one got back to me. No one wants to talk to a stranger. It's fine. But I tried. um, which is also part of why like you reached out. like, I want to give back because no one really helped me in that way. And like, I want to like,

I appreciate it immensely by the way. I was surprised at how quickly you responded. Thanks. Go ahead.

What you're doing and like you're young and you're hustling and I respect the hustle like I Want to help anyone in any way that I can who's trying to get something off the ground because it's hard and You got to open doors for people

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:24:52.034)

I appreciate that a lot.

So yeah, anyway, I I called the number one day on the for lease sign on top of the space and I was like, can I see it? I want to open a cafe. And they're like, can you be there in an hour? I'm like, sure. So I showed up and I just took a bunch of photos and I put it on my Instagram story and I said like, I'm poor. I need investors. This was like COVID. I was like broke, broke. It was like on Medicaid at the time, like, cause work wasn't happening. Like I was broke and then, but I was like, I'm poor. I need investors. I,

I'm just trying to like, I've always had a dream of opening a cafe. I found this space. It's right on Fulton street and yeah. And, I've been setting up informational interviews, whatever. And I figured it would be like, people would follow me. They would know people and I'd cobble together like 10 investors, small business loan, and we'd make something happen if it happened at all. But I was just putting it in the universe. And then my business partner replied and she's like, I've got some money to invest. And I'm like, okay.

in Brooklyn by the way.

Speaker 2 (01:25:53.442)

Great. And now we have Sweetpea.

The space is awesome, the outside specifically is.

Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's beautiful. I we, we agreed on Y amount and then we spent Z amount, you know, like it wound up costing way more. And a lot of that was like our own.

In experience, like it was our first time building anything in New York. It was our first time doing anything in hospitality. It was our first time like doing so many things. And we sort of said yes to a lot of stuff that we shouldn't have. Like we made a lot of mistakes and you're going to do that anytime you start something. course. But the end result is really beautiful. It was like, we were a finalist for like hospitality and design, like best new brand. Wow. Out of like.

100 or more than 100 submissions. We were one of like four or five finalists. Like it's a really beautiful space and we look at it as like it established us as someone in the hospitality space in New York city. It is like a destination because it is so beautiful and like there's no coffee shop that that that is that nice in New York and like

Speaker 2 (01:27:10.123)

There shouldn't be. It's stupid, but like it's beautiful. It's amazing.

Yeah, that's really really cool. I mean the the the spots amazing I was like when I walked in I was like, holy shit I did not expect that for a cafe at all. Yeah

It's weird because it's it's in kind of a public transit dead zone and like in the middle of Brooklyn, it almost feels like you walk into like a Soho house. Every day, pretty much. day? There are very few days I'm not in there. pretty much every morning I walk my dog to the shop, check in on everything and have my morning coffee there, shoot the shit with my employees, just see what's happening.

How often are you there?

Speaker 2 (01:27:50.124)

Mondays are like inventory days. like, I bring my dog to daycare so I don't have to feel bad about not spending any time with her. And I just, I go through the storage unit and I'm like, okay, how many cups do we have? How many lids do we have? How many milks do we have? What do I need to order? You know, and just so it's, yeah. So Mondays are like my inventory days and then.

It's a grind, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:28:16.396)

The rest of the week is kind of just chilling and then starts all over.

Cool. I was gonna ask you about this before and I totally forgot. About your girlfriend. How long have you guys been together?

God two years year and a half something like that. We've known each other a lot longer than we've been together

What advice do you have, I'm single, dating, like going on hinge dates with girls randomly, but like what advice do you have for guys in their 20s for dating?

honestly, I don't know. I mean, I feel like in my early twenties when I moved out to New York, I was so poor so I couldn't really go on dates. And then by the time I wasn't poor, my relationship to like food and fitness and alcohol was so bad that also I wasn't someone you wanted to date.

Speaker 1 (01:28:59.052)

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:29:08.878)

Fair.

So that's a tough one for me. I would say more than anything, like go on a lot of dates and find out what you do and don't like. I would say for anyone, go on a lot of dates, guy or girl, or they, them, non-binary, whatever. Just find out what you do and don't like. Like I think a thing for me too, that like, you know, I had to learn was like, there's a certain like beauty standard maybe like pushed on you by, especially in modeling.

And then like learning, hmm, is this actually the thing that I like? Or is like, is this the thing that I actually find sexy? And sometimes no, you know? And like, that's okay. There's nothing wrong with me for that. And like, if you think someone's hot or if you think someone is sexy, like say what's up. And like, it's okay if they don't fit into like some conventional beauty standard. It's like,

We're all weird and whatever does it for any one of us is different than what's gonna do it for another. like, you don't have to live in this like tiny narrow band of like what is and isn't okay.

for sure. That was great advice by the way. Absolutely, It was shaking. No, you got there, you got there. No, this was really, really great. I honestly, I was gonna just ask you about fashion and style and stuff and this went so many cool directions that are the essence of what this podcast is and you are the perfect guest for this. So thank you for doing this and yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:30:50.04)

Yeah, thank you so much for having me on. Sorry it went so long. Sorry I'm shutting up. don't know if it's a Jewish thing. I've got the gift of the gab, you know? Like I'll talk. A little bit, yeah, yeah. Like my dad's side of the family is.

no. I never apologize for length that this was.

Speaker 1 (01:31:02.38)

Are you Jewish?

Speaker 1 (01:31:06.318)

So me too. Yeah, I'm okay. I started I literally started a fucking podcast. I like

Yeah, because you... Yeah, yeah. It's fun to yourself sometimes.

Well no, this was really, really great and I will be sure to stop by. Tell everybody where to find you on Instagram, on TikTok, at the cafe. Yeah, kind of yourself out here.

On Instagram, I'm RSWinter. On TikTok, I'm Youngfontina. Y-U-N-G underscore fontina. Okay, I was at the grocery store and it was a cheese in the cheese department and I thought it was a funny name. And I made my TikTok Youngfontina because I never thought it was gonna like go anywhere. I never really planned to post. And then like,

Why is that by the way? I've always wondered that.

Speaker 2 (01:31:55.182)

by the time it started going somewhere, I was like, oh shit, let me make it RS Winter so it's the same as Instagram, but someone else already had that. And I'm like, it's like, all right, I guess I'm young Fontina now. And like, so it's like weird to be like, I don't know, you know, doing brand deals with like, you know, fashion brands, like I'll be doing something with like Armani. And it just feels weird to be like.

typing up my creative brief to be like, Giorgio Armani and young fontina.

It's really funny.

But it does kind of like take the piss out of it a little bit, you know, like it's like what I'm doing ultimately is so silly. Like ultimately I'm making videos in my underwear in my bedroom and like to be like a little non-serious about it always I think is like a good thing to keep in mind. Like one time, like anytime I take an edible and like watch my videos, I like cringe and delete videos. like, I can't watch myself when I'm high. And I was talking to my friend Natalie and she goes, Ryan, nobody makes content with Riz.

Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:32:58.966)

And I went, you're so right. And I'm like, if an alien watched you talking to your phone in your bedroom alone, like, you're like, that's so uncool.

It's so rare, is weird, it's fucking weird.

Yeah. And so to be like, to always like remind myself of like, yeah, no one makes content and is cool doing it. It like helps me to like not take it so seriously.

My roommates always look at me like I'm absolutely crazy when I'm like, we're talking to the phone. It's a crazy thing that we do. It's fun though.

It is insane, like, yeah. So I don't know. Yeah. We live in a weird world.

Speaker 1 (01:33:36.48)

So we do we do. Yeah, I know but yeah, everybody check out the cafe. yes, we'd

You can't tell that is to sweet be BEE not P like sweet P. that people always miss here, miss miss, misunderstand what I say. we're in Brooklyn. We're in Clinton Hill, right on the border of bedside. we recently started roasting our own beans. They're great. I think there's a discount code active on the website. If you want 20 % off on beans, I'm really proud of them.

They're really good for being my first time. Yeah, it's cool. And it'll only get better with time. No one's incredible at anything. no one's perfect the first time. Exactly. Yeah, so come to the cafe. Follow me on all of the internet stuff. Yeah.

I

Speaker 1 (01:34:31.947)

Absolutely. And I'll come meet you in person when I come pick up the mic. Yeah. Amazing. No, no, it was Aries. It was Michael. Yeah.

I'll try to be there this time. about that. Aries was working. No, Michael was working. Yeah, he's a good dude. He's one of my greatest hires. He's doing so well.

You've got good people there. It's a great vibe in there. Yeah, well, again, seriously, thank you for going into all those different areas of like topics and everything and being really open. I think it was really, really great. Yeah. Yeah. And I'll we'll coordinate a time. It was great to meet you.

We do, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:35:08.064)

Amazing. Thank you. Take care.

You as well. Have a good one. See you. If you liked this podcast, I really hope you did. Please give it five stars and leave a review and send any questions, topics, things you want me to talk about or things that just should be talked about to my email. Josh at guyset.com j o s h at gu i s e t.com. And I'll be sure to talk about it. You guys want to hear something also like really super cool. You can also follow guyset on tick tock and Instagram at the guyset.

T H E G U I S E T. You can also check out the website guyset.com for so much more content on all of the topics I'll be talking about on here. shit, sorry. I think I forgot to say to leave this podcast five stars and our positive review. Thank you so much for listening and I will see you guys next Tuesday. Let's fucking go!