How To Travel Smarter with Zach Griff

Speaker 2 (00:00.398)
Welcome to Guy's Set, the guy's guide to what you should be talking about. I'm Josh, I'm 23 years old, and I'm here to find all the tips, advice, and recommendations for guys in their 20s. Let's get into it.

Speaker 2 (00:18.35)
Hi guys, welcome back to GuySet, the guy's guide to what should be talked about. Today I have a super exciting guest on. Zach Griff is one of the original travel influencers and has built a really impressive social media presence with 137,000 followers on Instagram, where he posts his tips and recommendations for planes, travel, and tech, as well as credit cards, points, miles, and so much more.

He is also a senior reporter for The Points Guy, which is a travel website and blog that talks about obviously travel, airlines, points, miles, and credit cards. This is an episode for anybody that doesn't know where to start when it comes to credit cards, points, miles, and traveling. And even if you do know where to start and you feel like you have a good basis and a ground for all of this, I have a good feeling that there will still be something you take away from this episode. If you are thinking about getting a new credit card, traveling for work, traveling in general,

tips for using credit card points and miles, how to pick which airline to fly with. Just keep listening. You're going to learn so much. We got really detailed here. We go into what time he gets to the airport, his thoughts on travel insurance, what to do when an airline loses your bag, what he looks for that sets an airline apart, the things he never travels without, the airlines he recommends and how to pick them in the first place. We go into what you need to know about credit card points, the best way to use them. We really cover it all and

I think my favorite thing about this interview is that Zach got really detailed and transparent into the things he actually uses in his life, the way he uses his credit card points, which credit cards he uses, the hotels he stays at, the airlines he flies on, and this is exactly what I look for in a guest. think it's really important for us as listeners to hear really transparently what

the people I'm having on are actually doing in their daily lives. As a avid podcast listener, what I look for is those really detailed oriented things that people are actually implementing in their lives that we as listeners can then include and implement into our own lives and our lifestyle if that's something we're interested in or if it's something we're looking for. And Zach provided exactly that. And I think

Speaker 2 (02:36.158)
it is really beneficial and useful to have this type of information from someone who actually knows what they're talking about, who has done the research, who has done their own individual exploring to find these answers and has become a real expert and thought leader in this topic and industry as a whole. I genuinely learned so much from Zach during this conversation.

I'm not a pro traveler, I'm not a pro with credit cards or points or miles or any of the conversation topics we really talked about, but I honestly feel like I left this conversation having so much more knowledge than I had before. And I think you'll feel the same after listening. So let's get Zach in here to actually give you the tips and recommendations on traveling credit cards, points, miles, and everything in between. Zach Griff, welcome to Geisel.

Speaker 2 (03:34.445)
How doing?

Good, how are you? I'm so sorry for being a little late here.

No, do not apologize, thanks for doing this. You're not late at all, by the way. You're totally fine.

And I'm sorry, I would like to meet you in real life at some person at some point. just, we were in Chicago. I was in Paris on, I flew to Paris Thursday night. And then from there, I flew to Chicago on Friday. And then we were in Chicago for the weekend and I was in Miami on Wednesday and Tuesday was in Newark. So, totally crazy.

No, we'll definitely- Okay, that's- I also gotta ask you about that. I saw on your Instagram story that you flew to Paris for like a night. What was that?

Speaker 1 (04:11.47)
I didn't even fly to Paris for a night. I flew there on Thursday night, I landed on Friday morning, and I left like two hours later. So I mean, I entered the country just to switch terminals.

What was that for?

So Jeppe Lu actually has started to fly to Paris. Their first flight was on Thursday night, so it's their first time ever flying to France. It follows, think, last year, two years ago they started flying to London, so that was their first transatlantic flight. Paris is their second destination, so I was on their first flight and they had this big party. It was super cool and it was super fun, but you those types of trips, and I'm happy to talk more about them, but they are exhausting, especially when I do it like that, I call it a direct turn where I go out and...

I fly right back or fly somewhere else right afterwards. Yeah. So, you know, one of the things that I love to do and that's, that's most exciting for me about my job is going out, flying or experiencing really cool new travel experiences and inaugural flights. A lot of people, you know, love learning about new airlines, destinations, things like that.

So were you invited to that? How did that work?

Speaker 1 (05:18.766)
but it's typically where the first flight operated by an airline or a route or whatnot is celebrated with a party and a big celebration and everything. And in the airline industry, it's called the inaugural celebration whatnot. And JetBlue on Thursday, they had this really big party for their first flight to Paris. And so they had decked out the entire gate area at JFK.

They had a CDG balloon. CDG is the airport code for Charles Skoll Airport, which is where they fly to in Paris. And the entire space was just, it felt like in a way that you were already in France. they had this whole send off with the CEO and whatnot. And so I joined for the party and then I actually flew on the first flight for Jepllo. So it was awesome.

That's so cool.

Speaker 1 (06:12.942)
Those are the experiences I love most about my job and this experience. And you're just being able to go out there and learn more from the employees about what this means for them. And so the inaugural flights are absolutely not indicative of what you're going to see when you go out and fly the flight, right? You're not going to have the CEO sitting across from you. You're not going to have, you know, they handpick the crew. Sometimes they're special menu items or amenities. For instance, this time.

They give out these little like Airfly pro adapters, are, you know, to connect your AirPods to the wireless or to the Bluetooth via Bluetooth to the airline TVs. And so they give out all these special things. And so it's very fun, but it isn't indicative of, of, what the larger, what, what, what you typically find on that route.

I saw it on your story that that's gonna become a thing that you can use your air pods for air for movies now. That's so cool

it's incredible. I mean, it's so long overdue, right? Because AirPods are so popular. They're absolutely, they're my go-to. I use the Pro version, just the ones that I just put in my pocket. used to actually tote around these really big over-ear noise-canceling headphones, and I don't need to anymore. I mean, the AirPods are super powerful. And the big downside, though, is it just doesn't connect to the airline TVs, but it's definitely getting better.

Cool, so I love that we started here because I feel like now this is like the influencer side of everything. How did you get here in the first place? How did you start here? And I wanted to say that you were named the original travel influencer by British Airways. So this is like the top of this whole experience, but let's go back. Like, how did you start in this area?

Speaker 1 (07:56.428)
Yeah, so after I graduated college, I worked in consulting for about a year and a bit. And back in the day, was when I was graduating, no one ever said to, I never even thought I could be a travel blogger, journalist, influencer, whatever you want to call it. I never thought that this would be a career or certainly a job that I could have for over five years, which are for nearly five years, which is basically where I'm at now. And so.

I went to work in consulting. It was fine. Where did you work? I was working at ZS Associates. They were healthcare consulting. Healthcare because I was really interested in chemistry in pre-med classes back in school. I went to Penn. Okay. Yeah. So I went to Penn, graduated. A lot of my friends were going into finance and consulting. And I really, I chose the least bad of the options in my opinion.

Where'd you go to school as well? Cool.

Speaker 1 (08:53.614)
Finance, didn't love the idea of working all hours. I thought consulting. actually one of the things that I was really excited about in consulting, as I think back to it now, is the appeal of the travel. So obviously you're traveling out, or historically, consultants, they travel out to their client Monday to Thursday or whatnot. And so I was really excited about that because it would offer me the opportunity to accrue airline miles, points, hotel status, all the things that I really cared about on the side.

And so throughout college, had taken trips, kind of almost like, you know, a graduate school, a student might do in business school where they go out on trips every two, three weeks. I was doing that on the side in college on my weekends. was taking what are called mileage runs where you are just flying somewhere just to accrue miles because you found a really cheap fare or something. And so that was, it still is my hobby and my passion.

Never thought I could make a career out of it. So then a year after having started my consulting job, I saw that the points guide, which is this big website, major travel website that I had been following for at least 10 years at that point, or eight years, however long it had been in existence, essentially from the first post they ever made, I had been following it. And I saw on Instagram that they were actually looking for someone to join their team. And I was not...

My Instagram page, and this is a fun fact, my girlfriend at the time, it was now my wife, but she made my Instagram. had been so, Instagram just wasn't a thing. I don't know, I used Snapchat back in the day, maybe, maybe, and Facebook. And so she made this Instagram and I had been following, I think I followed like 25 accounts. And so the points that I posted, I was like, you know what, I'm gonna apply. I know.

that I will come in with a lot more knowledge than many of their other applicants simply because this has been my bread and butter as a hobby forever. And then fast forward five years and so I've been there and just kept growing and it's been great.

Speaker 2 (11:02.446)
Can you talk more about what the points guy is and their mission?

So the points guy is, know, for someone who's not familiar, it really encompasses the entirety of the travel experience in terms of giving you news about airlines, hotels, cruises, gives you lots of tips and tricks into loyalty programs. So those are your points and miles. And that's really where the site started was how do you use your credit card points, your airline miles, your hotel mile points, and how do you maximize your travel?

And so it started there, but it's since grown out onto, you know, educating people about travel experiences, diving deep into hotels and a really big arm of what we do also is on credit cards. so, you know, you'll ask me or I'm sure I get asked a lot. Look at how many credit cards do I have and all that stuff. that has really been able to fuel the travel that I've done. And it's something that we write about a lot. We cover a lot. And, you know, some people say, oh, you're just

you know, out there shilling credit cards. But actually it really does make a difference. know, all these sign up bonuses and things that I've accrued, all the perks and things, free nights at these really super fancy hotels, I would have never known about it without, you know, the points guide, but also certainly without, you know, signing up for these credit cards.

So I found the points guy through, at the time was a meme account girl with no job. It was her friend, Brian Kelly, who's the CEO and founder, is that right?

Speaker 1 (12:29.176)
So he's no longer CEO, he's founder, he's still involved, he definitely founded it, and he's still involved, and it's kind of named after him.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's the reason I have the credit cards that I have is their blog posts and I think it's an amazing resource. when you talked, I want to go in a lot of different directions because there's so many interesting things you've said. When you started your Instagram account, what was the point of it and was it for the points guy or was it just for

for you. Yeah. So I mean, the Instagram account largely was, hey, I have all this content that I'm accruing, you that I'm generating while I'm out on in the field, traveling airports, hotels, you on the road and at the points guy, we do have social media accounts. You should absolutely follow them at the points guy on Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, whatever media social media platform you use were there. And I just decided that I have all this.

I have all the content. I've been building a fan base because people are reading the articles and the things that I'm putting out via the points guy. And I was like, okay, well, if people are interested and they always say they want to see more because people love to travel, people love seeing all this stuff. Like, okay, I'll go out there and start building my own presence.

And it really started for me as a place to share some of the behind the scenes of what I was doing. I remember, think the video or one of the things that went viral for me first, I posted a video of what it was like in the crew rest. So that's where the airline pilots and flight attendants sleep during long haul flights. It's usually located above or below the passenger deck. And it's incredibly off limits. this is, you cannot see this on a commercial flight.

Speaker 1 (14:22.158)
It's locked. There's a combination code. So I think I have gotten a tour of some airplane on the ground and they let me see it and take a video of it and It went viral largely because it was behind the velvet rope. Most people can't see that I was certainly my first time ever seeing it and It's since evolved so I don't just obviously post, you know behind the scenes I recap my travels talk about, you know interest industry happenings. Obviously just last week. We had this crazy meltdown with with the weather

in the northeast in particular, and so I made an explainer, but if you are interested, am at, and just one funny anecdote too. I started so late that I lost the opportunity to get my full name. Like I wanted my handles to be at Zach Griff, so my name, but I started so late that they're already taken, so I put an underscore before it. But anyway, now I say embrace the underscores is my thing.

No, but you've gained a really impressive following. And that's no small feat, so it's very impressive.

Yeah, well, I think that I think part of it is just, you know, hitting hitting the algorithm, trying to. think it's it's incredibly confusing. One day something will do well. You'll try to reposting that two weeks later and it would it would flop. So, you know, I just for me, it's it's less so about how things do in the performance and more about I genuinely love sharing my travel experiences. I love not just sharing, but going out, taking pictures, videos of new airlines, hotels and things. And so

For me, it's more just a medium in which I can share that.

Speaker 2 (15:58.838)
Amazing. So going back to those consulting days and kind how you started by wanting to be on that, like traveling throughout the week. For somebody who's my age joining consulting their first year, their second year, what tips do you have or recommendations for someone that's traveling from a Monday to a Thursday or traveling once every so often, once every week? What can you tell them?

Yeah. And that's really, you know, as I think back to it and really as I, as I analyze it now in the industry of where we're at, it really pays to be loyal to an airline, a single airline when you can, because it takes a lot to earn status, to earn free flights via the miles that you accrue. And because of that, because of, you know, the barrier to entry and just kind of the barrier to, to earn those different perks, you really pick an airline.

But be strategic about it because there are three major US airlines. Essentially, you have American Delta and United. You have Southwest, but certainly in the Northeast, in New York in particular, they're not super strong. Where do you live? Are you closer to Newark Airport or LaGuardia? You definitely don't want to be trekking the other side of town just to earn more miles or to earn an upgrade or something like that. It will get boring very quickly. used to...

I've trekked to JFK. JFK for me is a massive flat from where I am in the city. And I avoided it at all costs unless it's like an international flight that I have to take or that I want to review or something like that. So really choose wisely based on your location. Generally speaking, Delta is less rewarding in terms of the miles that you earn, but they have a great product. Their sky clubs are gorgeous.

Planes are all retrofitted with free Wi-Fi and you get a ton of perks when you fly with the amenities, but your loyalty side of things, they don't need to compensate for a subpar product because they are, I would say, the market leader. Your Americans and your Uniteds are still catching up. United in particular is really investing to try to catch up, but you can still unlock a little bit more value from the loyalty side of things from those two airlines.

Speaker 2 (18:15.5)
So, it's someone in my position, how do you pick that initial airline to go with and start with and then just gain points there?

Yeah, so it would, you know, location. It's where are you flying? Obviously, if you're just starting, you may want to kind of dabble with a few airlines and then say, OK, this project that I'm going to is always in Cincinnati or it's always in Denver. And, you know, hey, United has a big hub in Denver, so I'm going to fly there. Delta used to have a hub in Cincinnati, so they still have a lot of flights from the northeast there. Or, hey, I'm going to Florida and

Maybe it's Miami and American has a ton of flights there because they're the hub. So I would say it's where you're going. It's that conversation we just had about kind of where you want to land on the loyalty side in terms of more valuable points or a better onboard and flight experience, which is kind of a give and take. And then we can talk about this, but also it's once you kind of decide where you want to be loyal.

then it's starting to devise a credit card strategy around which you want to be earning and maximizing your points so that you can then go and take those free trips.

What do you, we'll get into the credit cards because I'm very interested in that, but what do you use miles for? What's the point of miles?

Speaker 1 (19:37.486)
So generally, or historically, miles were, you use 15,000, 12,500 miles or something, and you get a free one-way ticket anywhere in the United States. And it's definitely gotten more complicated even in the last five years since I've been analyzing it on a day-to-day basis. So miles are essentially a currency in which you can use them to redeem for free flights. And in the last few years, you can also use them to do upgrades and seat assignments and

bag fees and things, but primarily if you're looking for the best value for your miles, it almost always is redemptions for flights themselves, not for hotels, not for car rentals, not for things like that. And it's also over the years, there used to be what we call a ward chart. So you go to a table, it says it costs X to fly between the US and let's say, I don't know, South America.

and it would say X and if seats were there, it would cost X. Over time though, airlines have gotten much better, especially in their revenue management department and trying to align the mileage cost of a ticket with the selling cost of, if you were to pay in cash or use your regular credit card. And so over time, it's become even more important for people as they're going out and making redemptions to make sure that they are actually targeting a good redemption value.

Otherwise, they may not be using their miles as efficiently as they could.

Got it, that's great, thank you. What is your favorite airline and what do you use?

Speaker 1 (21:12.012)
Yeah, I mean in the US I fly so much. mean last year I think I'm almost at 200,000 miles flown with I think 100 flight segments which is just totally nuts and I definitely need to take a step back. I pay so much in rent in New York and like why am I always leaving? And I enjoy it, it's great. So last year I really kind of flew around. I slept around or whatever you want to call it.

with all the different airlines. Although I will say that I have I love flying Delta. The experience is amazing, but I don't do it often because I find that I'm not rewarded for the flights the same way that I am with United and American. American, I would say, is the least exciting. It's the least sexy airline out there. The planes are kind of all very standard, no screens. The Wi-Fi is great and stuff, but it just it misses. It's missing some of like that

that excitement that I get when I fly Delta and a little bit with United too. so, but their points are just so good. I just redeemed like 70,000 points, 75,000 points to go from the U.S. to the Middle East in business class on Qatar Airways, which is just, you as you think about best airline, we'll talk about that there in a second, but just super opulent suites and.

private pods and an incredible, incredible, a ticket that would have cost three, four, $5,000. And you can't get that with other airlines. United is much more, Delta is astronomically higher. It's hard to answer which one's my favorite in the US, but I will answer, you know, globally Emirates and Singapore are probably my two favorite airlines. Emirates is just in a league of its own, especially in first class. I mean, I've posted about some of those experiences. And what's really crazy is I've never paid for

class on any of these airlines. I exclusively use miles. It's incredible to see the experiences you can unlock by being strategic about your miles, following the points guy, know, really reading, keeping up with, you know, the trends in the space. And it's just wild to see the evolution. The things that I've been able to unlock with miles in Singapore is also, I mean, the service there is just incredible. The seats are generally good, especially,

Speaker 1 (23:32.43)
relative to some of the other airlines, but I flew 18, 19 hours from New York to Singapore on the world's longest flight last year. And yeah, I still think about that.

What was that experience like?

I was exhausting. I like to fly. really do. I love my job. But that was probably three or four hours too long.

Yeah, got it. And when you say the perks and stuff that you unlock, is that specifically like a first class flight or like a better seat, a better upgrade?

Yeah, so I should be specific in saying there are perks that you enjoy as you accrue status with airlines. And so that's via the elite status programs. With Delta, you could be a medallion member. With United, you're a premier member. And as you rise the ranks of those elite status tiers, you enjoy more benefits and perks. Free upgrades, upgrade certificates that you can use for longer flights.

Speaker 1 (24:32.798)
You get free bags, all those things. So those are the perks generally. And then when you redeem miles, so that's kind of one track. One track is the elite status and the second track is actually the earning of the miles, which you can then use to redeem towards flights. You can use to redeem them for upgrades and hotel stays and sometimes and other things. as we said, like primarily use them to redeem for flights.

more of in a way a rebate program for the trips that you take. But that would be how I unlock the free flight.

Got it, that all makes sense. Okay, cool. So let's get into credit cards. We've talked about it, we've touched on it a bit. What credit cards do you have? What do you recommend for travel? And let's start there.

Yeah, so I'll admit that I have over 25 credit cards open at the moment. Yeah, it's but that's what I'm saying, right? If you and this is you do not whoever is listening to this, you do you know, unless you have DM me on Instagram and you have explained your situation, likelihood is you need like three or four, maybe five credit cards. You do not need 25. But I have a maximizer. I love being really

Holy shit.

Speaker 1 (25:52.622)
involved in what I write about and think about all day long. And so for me, there's value in all these cards. But I'd say that there are really two types of credit cards that people should consider. But I will start with one warning is do not even bother playing the credit card game or opening lots of cards or thinking about it if you're not paying your bills every month. Because if you're not paying them on time every month, you're going to lose and it will not

be good for your credit score when you want to go and get a mortgage or lease a car or something like that. if you are not ready to make that, if you're not making enough money, whatever it is, if your financial situation is such that you cannot pay off your bill every month, don't even like skip this section. But assuming you can. So there are two types of credit cards generally that I like to recommend. There are cards that are co-branded with travel providers.

Those are like your Delta cards or your Marriott cards. And then there are non-affiliated, what we like to call flexible reward cards. So those are Amex, Chase, Citi, Capital One. They all issue credit cards in their name that are not attached directly to a specific travel provider. But what's really cool about those cards, we can get into that is you can actually go and take the points that you accrue with them and then ultimately transfer them.

further down the line to an individual airline or a hotel train.

So yeah, get into that a little bit more. I want to hear about that. What cards are doing that? What do you use? Yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:29.418)
Okay, so flexible rewards. I would say that there are four players. There's Amex, Chase, City, and Capital One. I use Amex and Chase the most. So I love Chase Points in particular. I find that their two highest value partners for me personally have been historically United and World of Hyatt. So in these days now, it's less so United, really World of Hyatt. I absolutely love.

the fact that I can send my chase points, I send them one to one to Hyatt. So if I have 10,000 chase points, I can go into the chase portal, make a transfer, and then they turn into 10,000 Hyatt points. And for instance, just this past weekend, I was in Chicago, I stayed at a brand new or recently renovated Park Hyatt Hotel, which is their fanciest brand, the Park Hyatt Chicago. And I don't know, was, let's say, $700, $800 a night.

but I use 25,000 points that I transferred instantly from Chase from that I had accrued from Chase to make the redemption and to essentially get a free night at the hotel. And that's a really, really incredible value. I do this all the time with my, certainly with my hotel stays, I try to always stay with Hyatt so that I can make those types of redemptions. But so Chase points are really good for that. They're really good for Hyatt hotels and they're good for some airlines.

They partner with United in the US, which until recently has offered a really good redemption value. found depending on, you know, assuming that you can find a reward seat, it's actually pretty, pretty lucrative. and the other thing about Chase points, which is really nice is you can actually redeem them for any hotel or any flight that you want. And you, do that directly through the chase portal. So chase has their own essentially travel shopping software.

that you can go in and redeem points toward essentially anything that's out there for sale. Your redemption rate will vary depending on which chase card and everyone asks which chase card should I get. I get the Sapphire Preferred or the Sapphire Reserve? And so depending on which one you have there, if you have the reserve, you'll actually get a better redemption rate and that could be a reason to choose the reserve over the preferred if that's how you plan to redeem your points. those are really kind of the...

Speaker 1 (29:49.63)
gold standard in my mind because they're flexible points in the sense that can transfer them and you can redeem them directly. Amex, much less valuable when you want to redeem them directly, but they do have a lot of airline and hotel partners that you can go and send those points to. So, you know, if you want to fly Delta, if you fly Delta a lot and you want to redeem points with Delta, which isn't necessarily the best value, but let's say, you know, that's what you want to do. You don't necessarily need to have a Delta credit card.

to do that because Amex points transfer instantly one to one to Delta. So those are really interesting things that people don't think about necessarily. They think, I'm a United Flyer. I have to have a United credit card. I mean, it does give you perks, right? Opening the card may give you a free check bag and priority boarding and things like that, but it doesn't necessarily accrue miles as fast as if you were to use the chase card that we were just talking about, which then you could later on down the line.

transfer those points directly to United.

So do you have an Amex card that you recommend similar to what you were saying about the chase one?

Yeah, so with Amex, I use two cards, primarily. So, and this is more for spend. you go, if you think higher level, I have 25, 26 credit cards. I use some for spending. So that's where I put my expenses. And then I literally keep some in the sock drawer just to have the benefits off. So in terms of the cards that I spend on, I'm spending on the Amex Gold credit card.

Speaker 1 (31:19.242)
And why? Because that earns four points at dining and groceries. And that's a big expense category for me, especially being out on the road and I like eating out, especially in New York. So that's a big one. And then I have the Amex Everyday Preferred Credit Card and that earns one and a half points for all the spend that I do as long as I make 30 transactions a month. So, you know, I'll, I'll tear out those bonuses. So I'd get 4X on dining and groceries.

And then kind of the other things that aren't bonus, I would put on that other credit card, and they all pooled together to earn points into one larger membership rewards account, which is what Amex calls like their loyalty points.

If you had to recommend one credit card to a, I mean, someone in college, a recent college grad, someone just living in New York, what would you say?

Definitely Chase. It'd probably be the Sapphire Preferred. If you see value in the reserve, there's definitely ways to, know, kind of, of, especially if you travel, they have the lounge access, there's the global entry, TSA pre-check fee credit. So there are a lot of perks. It is a more expensive card, right? The Preferred is, I think, $95 annual fee. The Reserve is $550.

So it's a more expensive credit card. You get a $300 travel credit and things. So if you're further along in your journey, I'd say the Reserve. If not, definitely start out with the preferred. You can always upgrade later on to the Reserve.

Speaker 2 (32:46.85)
What about somebody that's not traveling as much? What credit card is the best value for that?

then if you're not thinking about traveling, and really for anyone who wants the simplest thing, if you've just listened to the last 10 minutes, you're like, this is way too complicated for me, definitely be earning cash back. So you could use a debit card, you could pay with cash, but at minimum, there's a credit card called the Citi Double Cash Credit Card, and that gives you essentially 2 % cash back on every single dollar that you spend. You spend 100 bucks, you get $2 back.

You spend a thousand bucks, you get $20 back. And there's no limit to how much cash back you get. It is super, super simple. It's an incredible credit card just for someone who wants the most simple, easiest way to go into this world. And you won't have to worry about, you'll then go and redeem, you'll pay for all your flights, but you will know that you are getting a baseline 2 % cash back on everything.

Awesome. And then what tips do you have for someone who has this is their first credit card. They just opened a card. What do you recommend?

Yeah, so if I want to step one step back and just talk like, you know, higher level, so credit cards, you're approved for them based on your credit score largely, which is, you know, some type of calculus that's done based on how much money you've borrowed in the past, how your payment history is, how long you've had credit cards for. If you're really just starting, the goal is to really build that credit score. So assuming that

Speaker 2 (33:57.271)
Exactly.

Speaker 1 (34:21.902)
you know, maybe you weren't an authorized user, or maybe your parents had put you as like an authorized user on one of their cards. That really does help build your credit score. But if you're really starting from scratch, I would even consider doing like some of the student credit cards. For instance, Discover. That's actually the first card I ever had was the Discover It card. Yeah. And they approve people with very low, you know, very low credit lines. I think my first one was a thousand or fifteen hundred dollars.

and I knew I needed to keep that essentially active, paying it off on time every single month for, I think I did it for six to nine months before I started this whole, okay, now I'm going to sign up for a chase car. Now I'm going to sign up for an Amix card and things because the issuers I, in, I, I was foolish. I applied for my first credit card as the chase Sapphire reserve, the first one, because there was this big bonus and I really wanted it, but.

I was way too young, I had no credit history, I got denied for it. And so, okay, so then I went and started with Discover, then I did the CitiCard, and then I started building. Then by the time I got back to the Chase, I was a-

Yeah, I had a similar experience. got denied for, I think it was an Amex card and then I went to discover and then I think I laddered up. So you would say discover and then chase and then go to Amex. Is that the ladder you would say? Yeah, I'm

I think, you know, discover, hold that for a little bit and then decide where you want to go next. There isn't, you know, it's not a one size fits all.

Speaker 2 (35:54.786)
Got it, okay. So, and is there a perk to having as many cards as you have open? That's not possible for a lot of people, but like three to five, is that like a recommended? Yeah.

So the idea is, and this is, I do this maximize, but the idea in my mind is you want a card or two that are really good for your spending. So that earn, and when I say good for spending, that means they earn bonus points in the categories that you spend a lot in. So your chase cards, your Sapphire Preferred and the Reserve, they bonus out travel and dining. And those are why I like to recommend it, aside from the fact that the points are really good.

A lot of people our age and our, who are just graduating, who are living in the city, they spend their money on dining and travel. And if that's you, you want to be looking for a card that bonuses out on those things. But then there are also consultants and people who I fly Delta or I fly United, but I don't fly them enough to have a ton of elite status with them. So then it's open a credit card with United or Delta.

Marriott or wherever, and you'll get a few perks simply for having the card. So if you check a bag and instead of paying 30 bucks or whatever it costs now to check a bag, you just, you you get one for free just by having the credit card. And a lot of these cards have annual fees that are 50 bucks, a hundred bucks, some are free. And you'll, you'll, you'll make up that money really quickly. If you take two or three trips a year with those airlines.

Awesome. And you also mentioned Hyatt for your hotels. What other hotels do you recommend for people traveling?

Speaker 1 (37:37.324)
Yeah, so the reason, as I said, that I recommend Hyatt is simply because their loyalty program is just leaps and bounds better than Marriott or Hilton. Hotels are less exciting from a redemption perspective. I'd say that there are some credit cards out there that offer free night certificates. So just by having the credit card, you may earn a free night at a Marriott or a Hilton or something. And those are valuable.

But unless it's Hyatt, you're not gonna be unlocking that same value that you would from redeeming with an airline. Because just the hotel chains, especially Marriott and Hilton, they're so big that they don't need to offer rewards in the same way that a Hyatt, which is a much smaller chain, would need to.

Got it. And is there anything else that you would recommend using points for beside travel?

I'll take that question in a little bit of a different direction because this is something incredibly important, I think, is when you leave college and whatnot, likelihood is you're going to be renting an apartment in the city. And if you haven't heard of the built credit card, that is like another like no brainer card to have. And why? It's because it's the first credit card.

that offers the ability to earn points with no fees on rent. So you go into most people, certainly my apartment that I rent, if I were to pay with a credit card, I'd have to pay three, four, 5 % fee in addition to the rent simply for using the credit card. Whereas with the built credit card, you pay absolutely no fee and you earn points on it. And so, and those points are actually pretty valuable. You can redeem them for travel and things like that. And a lot of people have never heard of built.

Speaker 1 (39:29.646)
It's backed by Wells Fargo. It's very much a legit company. This is not some startup that's going to fail. Wells Fargo has essentially acquired them. The card is issued via Wells Fargo. It's a legitimate credit card with a legitimate program. It's actually run by some of the folks who work there, the points guy employees who I'm friends with. But that's a card that I use consistently, month after month on my rent.

bonuses and things like that. But other than flights or hotels, if you're not really redeeming for those things, then it really does make sense to go back and think about a cash back credit card.

Got it, yeah, that's great. I'm gonna definitely look into the built card. I heard about it through Instagram and it looks very, it looks.

Yeah, it's super compelling. mean, there's really no downside. You know, I don't use it for all my spend. I use it for a few convenience store purchases and rent every month. And the only reason I do that is because you don't earn points unless you make five transactions a month. So, you know, I go to CVS four times a month. I use the card and then, you know, the fifth charge is my rent. And then I earn a boatload of points from overpriced rent in New York City.

Yeah, that's great way to earn points. So let's shift into travel. I gotta ask you all your tips and tricks for travel. First, starting with travel insurance. Every time I go to buy a flight, I'm prompted for travel insurance. Is it worth it?

Speaker 1 (41:06.604)
Yeah, you know, it's funny because we just stopped talking about credit cards, but I'll take us back there for a second because your chase cards and Amex too, less so, but chase, especially the Sapphire reserve and preferred to, when you go out and make a purchase with those cards, a travel purchase, and you put it on the card, you actually include it. There's travel insurance included in those credit cards.

So your flight's delayed six hours or something and you're stuck on the tarmac and then you have to get a hotel at the last minute and maybe rent a car or something. You can actually expense that to chase after the fact by filing a claim with them for their travel and trip disruption insurance and things. So I never ever purchased travel insurance. One or two exceptions were during the pandemic when things were a little iffy as to whether I could actually make it and I...

you know, was paying, you know, expensive hotels and things like that. But, but never anymore do I do that because I just, put it on a credit card that includes trip insurance. I don't have them all memorized at the top of my head, but I guarantee you, if you Googled the points guy credit cards, trip insurance, the first hit is, know, the top cards with, with amazing travel insurance included.

That's a really good tip, that's important. What are things you look for when you go onto a plane that sets the plane apart, sets the company apart? What do you look for?

Yeah, I mean, these days I'm doing a lot of work from the flight. So it's how fast and reliable is the Wi-Fi. I don't really care where I sit. I mean, obviously I prefer to be in first class or business class or whatever, but to be honest is, you know, just give me a seat with access to a power outlet and speedy Wi-Fi. That's all I really need. I don't care about seat back screens all that much.

Speaker 1 (42:56.142)
because I bring my own content largely. It's either I stream it or I have it downloaded on my computer or iPad or something like that. And it's also reliability. Is this airline reliable? Generally in the US, you have your Delta, which is a little bit more reliable than some of the others. But that's really all I care about, which is great. I'm jaded. I do this a lot. So I just need one or two things.

Sure. What are your non-negotiables when traveling? What do you have to have with you and what do recommend people bring with if they're traveling a lot?

Yeah, so I actually always travel with my passport. You never know when you need it or when you forget your ID or lose your ID somewhere. And so I definitely travel with my passport. I also travel with TSA Pre-Check and Global Entry. If you don't have that, that'll totally save you so much time at the airport. I also have clear. I know that some people ask me, do you have clear? I do have clear. I get that actually for free from my Amex Platinum card that I have.

And that's great, especially in some of the New York airports where you can just speed through security even faster than pre-check. But I have both, so I have clear pre-check, I have global entry. And that's pretty much it. I mean, I have a travel adapter I always travel with. I actually have my backpack packed at any one time, so it's always there. I do bring earplugs. You never know when like...

You know, obviously I have AirPods too, but especially on long, long haul flights, I put them in and definitely helps me feel more at ease and not as disrupted. I always have some extra snacks because you never know when your next meal will be when you're on the road, especially when delays hit and all the airline has is, you know, pretzels or tiny little pack and you get one and, I, that's certainly not enough for me. yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:53.622)
I mean, and then your tech gear, your laptop, your camera, whatever, your phone.

What is the difference between pre-check and clear?

So pre-check, they're both essentially expedited security programs. So if you think about security at the airport, there are two steps. There's the ID check, and then there's the actual screening of your gear. And so what CLEAR does is it speeds up that first thing, the actual ID check. So it digitalizes the experience for the ID where it uses your eyes or your fingerprints, and it then basically verifies who you are and you get to skip the line for the ID check.

Once you're done the ID check with Clear, you get funneled into either a regular lane or a pre-check lane. And what pre-check is, it's a TSA program. So TSA is the security agency that runs the security at the airports. And if you are vetted from them as a pre-check traveler, they let you keep on your shoes, keep your laptops in your bag.

You don't take out your liquids, you can wear a light jacket as you go through a metal detector as opposed to a full body scanner. And so that program is basically helps expedite that second half of the experience where you just go through the screening faster. The other benefit is you do go through a separate lane for IDs. And so there are fewer pre-checked travelers out there. So that lane is typically faster. But if you really want the ultimate combo, it's both.

Speaker 2 (46:22.092)
Got it. Do you have an airport in New York that you always travel out of?

I don't just because I do so much of it. I just flew through LaGuardia, came back via there last night. And if you haven't been there in a few years and you remember it from your childhood or whatnot, it is stunning. Simply, just, every time I'm through there, just, can't believe this is actually where I kind of grew up flying into to visit my grandparents. And like, it was such a dump. And now- fountain? Yeah. I mean, it's just, you feel like you're in Asia. Really.

Speaker 2 (46:56.512)
It's way too nice.

Yeah, we didn't, I don't know what we did to deserve it because all we needed was like a little bit of an improvement. It would have gone a really long way, you you have all, you essentially have an entirely new air.

It's really, really nice. What do you recommend for somebody traveling on a budget?

Yeah, so I would take a look at the basic economy fairs that, you know, sometimes you can opt out of those types of things on some of the search engines. Basic economy is kind of your budget entry level into flights and airlines. I would actually, if it's similar, I would avoid flying on your Spirit, your Frontier, of those air, you know, I would try to buy the basic economy ticket.

with a major airline because when things go wrong, there are a lot more rebooking options if you booked from Delta versus with Spirit, which may only fly in your market like once a day. And so it's being strategic about it because you can fly, you know, American or United for the same price as Spirit. And especially after you factor in the fact that you have to pay for a bag or something like that. And you really want to be, you really want to, you want to try to

Speaker 1 (48:15.246)
you with a more reliable airline, I would say.

Are those spirits and those frontiers as bad as the memes make them out to be?

No, I have no problem flying them to be honest. It's really, you have to go in and I've done it. So I've flown both of them multiple times. You really have to just go in knowing what you're getting, which is not a whole lot. You'll know that you have to pay for essentially everything. And then you know that if things go wrong, the odds are your next option won't be for a day or two, just because.

know, spirit only flies once a day or twice a day to their markets. And if the flights are full, they can't rebook you onto other ones.

That's a really good tip. If something does go wrong and a larger airline, let's talk about like luggage, losing your, losing your bag. What do you recommend someone does if they lose their bag?

Speaker 1 (49:06.094)
Well, remember we talked about credit cards offering trip insurance? A lot of them also have delayed luggage, you know, benefits too. Really? Where if your luggage is delayed by whatever hour is, you'll Google the details and whatnot, but they all have it and not all the credit cards, but the kind of the good ones do. And you'll end up, I once had a missing bag in Paris and I think I showed up three days late and I went to, you know, some, I didn't go to some fancy designer store, but I went to

I don't know, I called H &M. I went there and I had, I don't know, two, $300 to spend there over the course of the three days or something that I got fully reimbursed from a credit card company.

That's great, wow.

Yeah, it's mean, it's those are the reasons, you know, obviously points and all those things are great and don't get me wrong. I love it. But I also I mean, I I would go nowhere, you know, without the benefits of these cards.

No, that's awesome and a really helpful answer. So let's talk a little bit about like your favorite destinations, your favorite places you've traveled. I'm curious, what are they?

Speaker 1 (50:11.468)
Yeah, one of the things I love and people I really, you know, I travel so much to major cities. So whenever I can get away from the crowds is and really kind of just disconnect. And so actually I've been I've been to Africa a few times, different countries throughout the continent. But I love going there because I do really feel disconnected in a way from the society that I live in every single day when I go out.

when I have trips over there. So that's really cool. I loved, I went to Bali last summer. It's an incredible, so far really, know, trek to get there. But once you get there, there's just so much variety in what you can experience, which is just, it was just incredible. In the U.S., I absolutely love the West Coast. I love California in particular, the variety of the experience that you can have, you know, from an LA to driving the PCH.

up in near San Francisco. And it's just, there's so much diversity there, which, you and I've really explored California a ton, especially during COVID when international travel was kind of, you know, wasn't recovered the same way that, you know, domestic travel was.

What do you recommend for a guys trip? Where should I go with some friends?

I love New Orleans. know that some people say they don't, which is interesting because I've only had incredible experiences there. I've been on bachelor parties. I've had, my wife and I have visited as like couples. mean, there's just, there's a lot to do. I also love Vegas. mean, there's obviously- So fun. Vegas is great. And there are actually some points ways to kind of hack your way through Vegas. Hyatt, which we talked about before, they actually have a partnership with NGM.

Speaker 1 (51:58.51)
And so you can redeem points earn points. There's there, you know status match there There's a lot there's a lot there and if you want to learn more and that's just just a quick Google away And yeah, I haven't been to Vegas way too long. I love going there even as even on a business trip There's something like something interesting and I can only handle it for like two days. Yeah, like this place is like weird, but Yeah, yeah

It's a lot going on there. What about places with your significant other? More favorite spots.

I'm always thinking in those cases, where can we go to relax? I love city vacations and things, but something like that, is there a Caribbean island that we can get to that's pretty close? Is there some type of more charming resort somewhere? Could it be Mexico, know, Caribbean? Anything that's not, hey, let's go. And I've done plenty of trips, you know.

There's the parishes of the world. There's cities in Europe definitely and places to go. But I do a lot of that for work. it's where can we go and just kick back and relax.

Amazing. And I want to take it all the way back to the beginning of the conversation with you now being the senior reporter of At The Points Guy. What are some of the craziest perks you've received?

Speaker 1 (53:22.858)
that's well, I can't accept a lot of the things that I'm offered because then it becomes a little bit more of like editorial independence and things like that. So, right. So I, you know, I haven't necessarily taken things, but I've had, I mean, I've had access to things that I never would have thought could be imaginable. You know, I'm working on stories or posting about, I, you know, just the other week I was in LA and I was sitting essentially standing.

I don't know, maybe a hundred feet from the runway where I was just in a vest taking pictures and videos of planes taking off and landing. That's just so cool. And I would never have ever thought that I could ever do something like that. You know, I've interviewed and met CEOs for different travel companies, which is super cool. I've taken helicopters to the Hamptons. there are a lot of things that that's pretty crazy.

What's your day to day like? What are you working on as a senior reporter at the points guy?

Yeah, so I've kind of dabbled in a few things. The airline industry is the one I'm most passionate about within travel. And so I do spend a lot of time thinking, you know, what's going on there from a, you know, new planes, new experiences on the plane, new cabins, new loyalty programs. How are those evolving and changing? I also really love travel technology and travel gear. So, you know, best headphones, best laptops, best iPhone, you know, best

cellular plans for international travel. So I think a lot about that too. And it's largely like what's on Twitter, what are people talking about? What are the other blogs talking about? Are there new things coming? A lot of I have a big network of people who let me know when things are happening, you know, at different airlines or like, okay, we're announcing this, like, let's get you on the phone with someone or let's go visit this or

Speaker 1 (55:23.118)
Now, hey, for instance, this JetBlue flight, when they announced it, I'm like, OK, I want to fly on that inaugural. Like, what can we do to make that work?

So cool, yeah, I think this is amazing. And then any other last like tips or recommendations for people, guys in their 20s, anybody traveling?

You know, it might be controversial, but if you travel a lot, if you're not missing a flight every so often, that means you're arriving too early at the airport. Controversial, I know, but I'm so not the person. have, I'm so, I've done it so much. You know, if I miss one flight after every, you know, 50 or a hundred, that means I'm doing things right. mean, there's so much wasted time at the airport by the time you check in security.

And I love being productive and I love being busy. And if I'm wasting all my time in the airport, then I'm not doing those things.

So how early are you getting there? What's the time span?

Speaker 1 (56:27.118)
Usually like 45-ish minutes before departure. This assumes no checked bags. This assumes I'm not traveling with like a whole group. It's me or maybe me and my wife or something. Usually 45 minutes before departure. And then we talked about, right, I have pre-check, I have clear, I have all these different things that make it possible for me to do that.

So by the time you're at the gate, it's boarding.

Yeah, my goal is to arrive at the gate as the plane is boarding.

That's great. I mean, I feel like there's that stereotype of like your parents are always telling you to get there two to three hours early and you're at the airport for two hours sitting there doing nothing.

Yeah, and look, it doesn't work all year long, know, Fourth of July weekend, Labor Day weekend, whatever. But generally speaking, and I travel, I do both, do weekend travel, do weekday travel. If I, know, and worse comes to worse, you can always go out and say, hey, you know, I'm late, can I skip the line or something?

Speaker 2 (57:28.322)
I've never seen you that.

I'll go to the agent. There's kind of like an unwritten flat tire rule, which is like you show up late, they'll work to get you on the next flight basically.

Cool. Zach, this was great. I think people will take a lot away from this. I mean, specifically with credit cards and travel, I think this is huge. Where can everybody find you? Tell us again where to follow you.

Yeah, absolutely. So I am first of all at the points guy on Instagram, social, all the social media. We also have a daily newsletter, which is really cool because it's curated, handwritten, none of like the aggregated stuff that you see on other websites, which is you can sign up for the points guy daily newsletter. Me personally, I am at underscore Zach Griff. I'm big on Instagram and Twitter.

Z-A-C-H, by the way. Z-A-C-H, correct. Yeah, with the underscore. But I think nowadays, if you just type my name in, think that I will pop up, hopefully, as number one. So I can avoid the issue of the underscore. But anyway, this has been awesome. I really appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (58:33.74)
No, this is great and you gave some amazing tips and tricks. So thank you so much. If you liked this podcast, I really hope you did. Please give it five stars and leave a review and send any questions, topics, things you want me to talk about or things that just should be talked about to my email, josh at guyset.com, j-o-s-h at g-u-y-s-e-t.com and I'll be sure to talk about it. shit, sorry. I think I forgot to say to leave this podcast five stars and our positive review. Thanks again for listening and I'll see you next Friday. See you guys.

Of course.